FN Herstal Firearms banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Far as I can figure the only reason brass would come out looking like this is the chamber was improperly cut. I've scrubbed the chamber and with a light at the right angle you can see a second shoulder instead of just one. I've called customer service (if you can call it that) and they basically shrugged at me and said I could send it in if I wanted to. Additionally I have a direct thread sound suppressor 30p-1 that threads on rock solid to my GA Precision barrel, yet wont go more than two turns on the 17s barrel.

I've never had a firearms company be anything but eager to deal with issues such as this. The impression I got from FN customer service was complete apathy and indifference. Is this normal and what I should expect from FN ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
Far as I can figure the only reason brass would come out looking like this is the chamber was improperly cut. I've scrubbed the chamber and with a light at the right angle you can see a second shoulder instead of just one. I've called customer service (if you can call it that) and they basically shrugged at me and said I could send it in if I wanted to. Additionally I have a direct thread sound suppressor 30p-1 that threads on rock solid to my GA Precision barrel, yet wont go more than two turns on the 17s barrel.
My brass comes out the same way and others have posted the same. It doesn't seem to be an issue when reloading. I have separated the SCAR brass, however, that's because it's a semiauto.

As for the TB can, Zak has stated to not use the direct thread cans on the SCAR17. He may have changed that stance, but it'd be best to call and ask them. TB has great customer service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Far as I can figure the only reason brass would come out looking like this is the chamber was improperly cut.
Did you headspace your chamber? It's a 7.62x51mm chamber but without headspacing it you wont' be able to tell if your chamber is improperly cut.

Also, what ammo are you using? if handloads, new brass or once fired brass? Full length sizing die or collet die?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,418 Posts
Far as I can figure the only reason brass would come out looking like this is the chamber was improperly cut. I've scrubbed the chamber and with a light at the right angle you can see a second shoulder instead of just one. I've called customer service (if you can call it that) and they basically shrugged at me and said I could send it in if I wanted to. Additionally I have a direct thread sound suppressor 30p-1 that threads on rock solid to my GA Precision barrel, yet wont go more than two turns on the 17s barrel.

I've never had a firearms company be anything but eager to deal with issues such as this. The impression I got from FN customer service was complete apathy and indifference. Is this normal and what I should expect from FN ?
Normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
They're ready to honor the warranty. What more do you expect? FN to send a special courier to the OP's house to pick up the gun? Patch him through to a weapons engineer who just happens to stand by to answer various customer woes?

Special courier, weapons engineer on stand by... really? are you having a crappy day or do you really equate having having a specialized engineer on standby to answer my woes to a customer service department providing basic common courtesy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Looks just like the casings from my 17 s. Issue for me is that reloading this "newly reconfigured brass" presents an issue when trying to chamber them in one of my bolt action .308's (Kimber LPT). Cant close the bolt on them, even with full length resizing....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,366 Posts
Special courier, weapons engineer on stand by... really? are you having a crappy day or do you really equate having having a specialized engineer on standby to answer my woes to a customer service department providing basic common courtesy?
First of all, it wasn't even a malfunction. Secondly, you asked for help and FN offered to take the gun back for inspection and repair. What else are they supposed to do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
sometimes its just not worth the hassel
 
  • Like
Reactions: tatung70

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
I dont see the issue with fns customer service. Theyre probably saying send it back if you want, but its pretty much normal. I dont reload so maybe i cant see the problem with that case, is it that secondary rim below the mouth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
757 Posts
As others have stated, normal. All my brass has come out that way. That profile is intentional and I suspect FN designed it that way to aid in reliable feeding and durability since a relieved edge, like that, is unquestionably more durable than a sharp corner. But that's just my guess....:th_shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My brass comes out the same way and others have posted the same. It doesn't seem to be an issue when reloading. I have separated the SCAR brass, however, that's because it's a semiauto.

As for the TB can, Zak has stated to not use the direct thread cans on the SCAR17. He may have changed that stance, but it'd be best to call and ask them. TB has great customer service.
From what I'm gathering on this thread FN deliberately cut the chambers on these rifles differently than a standard 7.62 nato. If that is the case and its for the better why is it not advertised anywhere? Why wouldn't the customer support people at the very least be aware of it, so when people like me call and try to get some information on what exactly is going on, A. they would at least be aware of it or B. be able to tell people its normal or not normal. What I certainly didn't expect was a lackadaisical "I guess, if you want". An improperly cut chamber is a massive issue, capable of blowing the rifle apart in an extreme. Any other company would have immediately issued a shipping label or RMA and got it sorted out. Clearly not the case. Instead what I got was (paraphrase) "hey go back to the website, you know the one you got the customer service number from, and fill out the form there because I'm not actually writing anything down describing your issue or starting a case number or anything, and then I guess if you feel like it you can send it back to us and we'll take a look or whatever."

Was not aware Zak at TB had stated as much. I don't really plan to use the suppressor on the Scar; it would have been nice if it could have worked but its not a big deal. TB definitely has great customer service.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,026 Posts
From what I'm gathering on this thread FN deliberately cut the chambers on these rifles differently than a standard 7.62 nato. If that is the case and its for the better why is it not advertised anywhere? Why wouldn't the customer support people at the very least be aware of it, so when people like me call and try to get some information on what exactly is going on, A. they would at least be aware of it or B. be able to tell people its normal or not normal. What I certainly didn't expect was a lackadaisical "I guess, if you want". An improperly cut chamber is a massive issue, capable of blowing the rifle apart in an extreme. Any other company would have immediately issued a shipping label or RMA and got it sorted out. Clearly not the case. Instead what I got was (paraphrase) "hey go back to the website, you know the one you got the customer service number from, and fill out the form there because I'm not actually writing anything down describing your issue or starting a case number or anything, and then I guess if you feel like it you can send it back to us and we'll take a look or whatever."

Was not aware Zak at TB had stated as much. I don't really plan to use the suppressor on the Scar; it would have been nice if it could have worked but its not a big deal. TB definitely has great customer service.
You called FN and stated you had a problem with a product that they manufactured. Customer service answering the phone is probably some HS graduate that gets paid $7.00 an hour to read from a script that s/he is provided. The script probably says that if a customer complains about a faulty or suspected faulty firearm, you are to tell them to send it in REGARDLESS of what the customer thinks, observes, wants, needs, requires, imagines, or otherwise.

You called.

They said send it in for examination.

What more do you want than that?

Customer service is not staffed with $100,000.00 per year salaried engineers to answer questions. It is staffed with a "lightly" educated person who tells a customer what to do when they say they have an issue with a firearm. NO ONE will expose themselves to a LAWSUIT when a customer says "but I think it is OK" or "I do not think this is normal" and expect anything else to be said by customer service then "send it in and we will look at it".

And guess what? Even if you talked to the CEO/COO/Chief Firearms Engineer/Chief of Warranty Work/etc/etc/etc of FNH itself, the answer will still be "send it in". Nobody is going to "guess" at a fix over the phone when you say "I think my chamber is cut incorrectly".

And why should they say anything about the chamber? If they change the metallurgical values of the bolt, are the supposed to issue a press release about that as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,366 Posts
From what I'm gathering on this thread FN deliberately cut the chambers on these rifles differently than a standard 7.62 nato. If that is the case and its for the better why is it not advertised anywhere? Why wouldn't the customer support people at the very least be aware of it, so when people like me call and try to get some information on what exactly is going on, A. they would at least be aware of it or B. be able to tell people its normal or not normal. What I certainly didn't expect was a lackadaisical "I guess, if you want". An improperly cut chamber is a massive issue, capable of blowing the rifle apart in an extreme. Any other company would have immediately issued a shipping label or RMA and got it sorted out. Clearly not the case. Instead what I got was (paraphrase) "hey go back to the website, you know the one you got the customer service number from, and fill out the form there because I'm not actually writing anything down describing your issue or starting a case number or anything, and then I guess if you feel like it you can send it back to us and we'll take a look or whatever."

Was not aware Zak at TB had stated as much. I don't really plan to use the suppressor on the Scar; it would have been nice if it could have worked but its not a big deal. TB definitely has great customer service.
Why would FN cut the chamber to a dimensional spec different from 7.62NATO? They made the guns to be sold specifically to the US military who is a member of NATO.

Maybe the brass had the line because the way FN made the barrel. Not everybody and their brothers make barrels the same way. The gun works, so what is the problem? Everybody had confirmed that the scored line is normal. That's how the chamber is made.

It seems to me that you're looking for excuses to rant about nothing.

The gun isn't made wrong. FN is willing to examine it if you want to send it back. If you want customer service to fawn over you, buy a Holland&Holland.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
My question is this: Is there a standard that defines the dimensions/shape of a 7.62 NATO chamber?

Looks just like the casings from my 17 s. Issue for me is that reloading this "newly reconfigured brass" presents an issue when trying to chamber them in one of my bolt action .308's (Kimber LPT). Cant close the bolt on them, even with full length resizing....
What type of dies are you using? Have you tried small based dies?

I don't get this forum anymore. The guy sees the brass has formed to the chamber and notices an "extra shoulder" so to speak. I would be wondering also. What does he get? Dog piled. Told its normal. Accused of being a jerk.

A person sees something wrong. He calls customer support and they do not have enough training or care to give enough training on how to speak and show respect and actually offer to ask and get back, etc. And you people think someone should be satisfied with that? Or defend the behavior by making up excuses for FN, "It is a high school kid..." Really. Excuses never, and I mean never, out weigh performance.

And everyone with the attitude, "The gun works what are you complaining about", well how about not responding at all.

I would not expect any product to have an alteration to a chamber's dimensions, and especially an alteration that makes it so that a normal full length resizing die couldn't put it back in shape.

So, I feel for the OP, and would say to him, "Call them back, ask to speak to a supervisor, and talk it out and report back what is going on."
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillCarr and g22rmr

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
I don't get this forum anymore. The guy sees the brass has formed to the chamber and notices an "extra shoulder" so to speak. I would be wondering also. What does he get? Dog piled. Told its normal. Accused of being a jerk.

A person sees something wrong. He calls customer support and they do not have enough training or care to give enough training on how to speak and show respect and actually offer to ask and get back, etc. And you people think someone should be satisfied with that? Or defend the behavior by making up excuses for FN, "It is a high school kid..." Really. Excuses never, and I mean never, out weigh performance.

And everyone with the attitude, "The gun works what are you complaining about", well how about not responding at all.

I would not expect any product to have an alteration to a chamber's dimensions, and especially an alteration that makes it so that a normal full length resizing die couldn't put it back in shape.

So, I feel for the OP, and would say to him, "Call them back, ask to speak to a supervisor, and talk it out and report back what is going on."
Here's how I would run a customer service phone center. I'd pay a very knowledgeable and skilled gunsmith to sit on his ass and answer the phone all day. Then, I'd have the unskilled guy that is barely able to take a message, I'd have him fixing guns. America, **** Yeah!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Here's how I would run a customer service phone center. I'd pay a very knowledgeable and skilled gunsmith to sit on his ass and answer the phone all day. Then, I'd have the unskilled guy that is barely able to take a message, I'd have him fixing guns. America, **** Yeah!!!
Why did you say that?

I think that everyone should read Mike Rowe's comments on minimum wage / starter jobs, and how important it is to learn how to deal with people and prove yourself.

There is no excuse for not having a tone of concern in your voice when doing customer support.

Here's how it could have went:

"Hello, thank you for calling, My name is Mark. How can I help?"
"I paid $2800 for your stupid FN SCAR 17 and the chamber is deformed!"
"Thank you. Can you tell me how you know it is deformed?"
"Yes, the brass coming out of it when fired is all messed up!"
"Can you send me a photo of the brass so I can see what it is you are trying to describe?"

And in this case there would be a photo sent because the guy took a picture.

Now a responding in email:
"Thank you. We received the photo and I have forwarded it to someone who is knowledgeable in this area. I have asked the person to respond as soon as possible."

A couple of days go by and they send another email:
"The reason your shell case looks as it does is this.... blah blah blah. Please call back and ask for me if you have any more concerns."

Was that so hard?

So, why did you say what you said? It helps no one, it solves nothing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillCarr and g22rmr
1 - 20 of 59 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top