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Discussion Starter #1
This is something that I have found to be rather silly, and something that I don't see as making sense.

If I were to purchase a Bushmaster 9mm pistol, I would be perfectly legal and would be able to take it anywhere (within laws of the states) to shoot it.

If I put an extendable butt stock on it, . . . . it automatically becomes an NFA type weapon, requiring a butt load of paper work, $200 fee, AND if I wanted to take it to another state for a shoot, I would have to fill out paper work to get permission to do so by the BATF. Just because the pistol now has a butt stock on it.

I don't get it. The pistol, by itself, is much more concealable than one with a butt stock. It is MORE because the added butt stock would make it inherently MORE ACCURATE? Why does it automatically place a pistol (which would be the technical catagory it would be purchased as) into a "short rifle" catagory with a butt stock? It's just one added piece to help steady the thing, for pete sake!

That is my rant. Anyone care to comment? :)
 

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The feds clasify it as an SBR (short barrelled rifle) Subject to the $200 stamp. Barrel length is 16" min. anything under has to pay the money.
Just another useless law, but the consequences are hard! Felony charges will be applied.
 

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It's a rant that we can all agree with. A stupid law, based on absolutely nothing, with serious consequences.

Buy the 9mm AR pistol and have fun with it though, I love mine (I like my .223/5.56 pistol just as much, but it's twice as expensive to shoot :lol: )

My 3 stripped pistol lower, still haven't started a build






with new pistol lower installed


some rapid fire 25 yard shots to center mass, 29 rounds. The 3 head shots were aiming the first shot, and pulling the trigger two more times as fast as humanly possibly, not aiming.
:twisted:
 

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Ya know - I always assumed that the 9mm ARs used the same gas systems that the 223 versions use.

But someone recently told me that this was not ture.

Those 9mm AR pistols kinda grab my attention....
 

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ShipWreck said:
Ya know - I always assumed that the 9mm ARs used the same gas systems that the 223 versions use.

But someone recently told me that this was not ture.

Those 9mm AR pistols kinda grab my attention....
Indeed, they are blowback operated, no gas tube. :shock:
 

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The price is the only thing holding me back, I suppose :shock:

I was looking at the RRA models on their site just now.
 

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Are the receivers marked differently between pistol and rifle lowers?

In other words, if I want to make an AR rifle into a legal pistol, can I take the stock off and put the spring tube on and stick a 10.5" barrel on it?

Or would that be illegal because it started life as a rifle lower?
 

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Yes its a completely stupid law among hundreds of others dealing with firearms

theres no escape from idiots with red pens

if i were a federal agent id be much more willing to face an adversary with an sbr or a machine pistol than a barrett 50 or some deer hunter with a bolt action rifle

the scariest thing to me is someone popping me from 1000 yards that i cant even see
especially with a rifle that will tear through anything other than an abrams

but i guess the people who make laws dont think the same way
 

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I wish Keltec would make a 9mm version of that 223 pistol they have. Much cheaper.

I don't know if I wanna do the almost $1000 thing again - especially if you put an optic on it.
 

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Well I'll weigh in on the other side...sort of...

The thinking is a shoulder fired weapon should not be easily concealable. They (shoulder fired weapons) normally fire rifle caliber rounds and are seen as more danger...lets be honest. A 5.56 round and a 9mm are not the same....the 5.56 will do more damage and penetrate more armor.

By adding the stock you turned your pistol into a rifle (designed to be fired from the shoulder).

They gotta make a distinction somewhere..at least rifle round pistols aren't banned altogether...

Can you physically shoulder fire an AR pistol with the buffer tube? SUre you can.

Are you using it as a stock (the exposed buffer tube) and thus a short barrel rifle? I'm no lawyer and don't work for BATFE so I'll leave that to you to make the decision.

I would say it wasn't designed to be put to your shoulder...but it is an easy thing to do....grey area. Many laws are intent based. Did you intend to stabilize your AR pistol frmo the shoudler and thus create a SBR??

I don't know the answer. But itis best to have at least thought about the issue if you own one...

Cheers,

PS. I did have a sweet AR pistol that I sold of to fund my PS90....same basic size, longer bbl and totally legal regardless of interpretation....
 

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Texas Armadillo said:
Are the receivers marked differently between pistol and rifle lowers?

In other words, if I want to make an AR rifle into a legal pistol, can I take the stock off and put the spring tube on and stick a 10.5" barrel on it?

Or would that be illegal because it started life as a rifle lower?
Once a rifle, ALWAYS a rifle, whether it be your normal 16"+ barreled rifle with stock, or legal/NFA short barreled rifle, by law, it's got to stay a rifle.

So yes, your gut feeling was correct, started life as a rifle lower. If you buy a complete virgin lower, which most places offer, you can have them fill out form 4473 which makes the lower a "registered" pistol. It does not have to be "marked" pistol.


ShipWreck said:
I wish Keltec would make a 9mm version of that 223 pistol they have. Much cheaper.

I don't know if I wanna do the almost $1000 thing again - especially if you put an optic on it.
Indeed, the intitial purchase price is up there. HOWEVER, my 9mm AR has paid for itself 10x's over by not shooting my 5.56 AR's. It is just as fun, and is literally LESS than half the price to shoot. A hundred dollars each range trip ads up quick, and makes the 9mm AR look a hell of a lot better!
 

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Blame it on Bonnie & Clyde, Al Capone, Dillenger, Baby Face Nelson and all the other nefarious gangsters of the twenties and thirties. One of their favorite tricks was to cut a rifle barrel or shotgun barrel down. So to combat a few bad guys they passed some silly laws. Sounds kind of like the AWB don't it?
 

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As I understand it, the law makes no sence. A rifle is always a rifle, but a pistol can become a rifle, Hell they make kits for 1911's, Glocks, TC, etc..
Now if you can make a pistol a rifle why not the reverse?

The other dumb thing is saying pistols are pistols cuz they fire less powered pistol rounds. I don't think the 500 S&W, 50 GI or 50AE are underpowered and there are pistols that fire rifle rounds all the way up to 50 cal. You even have pistols that fire shotgun rounds. So the laws makes no sence. There's no ryme or reason involved.

The law about easily concealable shoulder fired arms is foolish. Why? Because pistols are concealable. So whats the difference. Now we've already established that there are pistols that fire rifle rounds, so they can't go there either.

The whole thing is BS. Why? Cuz "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
 

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+1000000

devildoc


gunlaws are ridiculous to begin with

every single instance where a gunlaw was in place
you can simply counter it with

"Criminals will get their hands on whatever they want, they are criminals"
if i were to enter the business of crime i wouldnt have regard for... the laws

so why cut the good guys down? no good reason
 

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devildoc said:
As I understand it, the law makes no sence. A rifle is always a rifle, but a pistol can become a rifle, Hell they make kits for 1911's, Glocks, TC, etc..
Now if you can make a pistol a rifle why not the reverse?
You can make a pistol a rifle. It'll just cost you two-hundred bucks and a mountain of paperwork. You can make a rifle a pistol, just saw off the stock and leave the barrel at least sixteen inches. Cut the barrel down and whammy, another two-hundred bucks.

What's even funnier is I have an 1861 Colt Navy revolver that has a detachable stock. It's legal because black powder percussion weapons aren't looked at the same way under the gun laws as modern weapons.
It can still blow big holes in things, go figure.

"Infringe" is another word that the libs don't quit seem to understand. Kind off like Bill Clinton and "is."
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What about this . . . . . can I put a FORWARD pistol grip onto a pistol (that is picitanny rail equipped)?
 

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Orion said:
What about this . . . . . can I put a FORWARD pistol grip onto a pistol (that is picitanny rail equipped)?
Nope - not without payinga fee - but I think the ATF fee for that is just $5. But ya gotta fill out the paperwork 1st.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Does it put it in the NFA classification, or something other? What is the paperwork on it, and where would you obtain this paperwork?

Oh, . . . can you attach a sling to a pistol without jumping through hoops?

Thanks!
 

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Yes, it is an NFA classification.

The forums to do so are on the ATF website. Unless you create a trsut, I believe you also have to get the top law enforcement official where you live at to sign off on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ShipWreck, was your post about the pistol grip, or ALSO to the question about a sling attached to a pistol?

Thanks!
 
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