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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know of the ability of the 5.7x28mm cartridge to stop people or other bad things that go bump in the night?
 

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I've only had the fortune of using it on menacing paper targets, but the effect so far has been pretty devestating. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I pray I never need it to do so, but I've read some reviews online that sound eerily familiar to some of my enlisted bretheren's tales of 5.56 FMJ taking 4-5 rounds to stop. I believe it was a belgian police officer with a P90 who used 5-6 rounds to drop somebody. Although I'm really liking the sound of a PS90 and would probably need to start the order process before Obama gets in, I was wondering if something like a M1 Carbine might far a little better.

Speaking of... maybe not to lead off the topic too much, but what would be the all-around best carbine for self-defense that still retains acceptable 50-100yd. accuracy? (all opinions welcome.)
 

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WilkVMI08 said:
..., but what would be the all-around best carbine for self-defense that still retains acceptable 50-100yd. accuracy?
I'm a big fan of the AR platform, but I still believe my PS-90 is what I would want in my paws in a close-quarters personal defensive situation (of the carbine variety anyway).

:?
 

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WilkVMI08 said:
Does anyone know of the ability of the 5.7x28mm cartridge to stop people or other bad things that go bump in the night?
The ability of the 5.7x28mm, or any cartridge to reliably "stop" someone rests solely on the ability of the person pressing the trigger to place all rounds in an effective manner. Nuff' said.
 

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WilkVMI08 said:
Speaking of... maybe not to lead off the topic too much, but what would be the all-around best carbine for self-defense that still retains acceptable 50-100yd. accuracy? (all opinions welcome.)
For self defense in the home I would be more concerned about over penetration into the neighbor's bedroom, so its a Remington 870 for me. You may also consider a .45acp carbine if over penetration is less of a concern. I used to keep a .45 converted FAL handy.
 

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Guns and bullets don't kill people. Shot placement kills people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I completely agree. While I practice to make sure my shot placement is spot on, I was curious as to the effects of the cartridge just in case by some act of God, my first (or second ,gasp!) shot didn't go exactly where it needed to.

I'm sure the PS90 can do a great job, I'm merely trying to inspire healthy conversation. BTW shipwreck, if this needs to be moved to the 5.7 ammo thread please let me know! Thanks all!
 

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It's never a matter of weather the round will stop someone, it's a matter of how many are needed to stop someone. Keep shooting the bad guy until he's no longer a threat. It doesn't matter if you are using a 5.7 or .454, until you are sure that the BG is no longer a threat, keep pulling the trigger. I'm not about to shoot a home invader and then ask... "Was that effective?" If someone comes into your home, they mean you no good. (and of course, shot placement trumps all.)

Zhur
 

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To think one round is going to take someone out of the fight permanently is ridiculous. Most places teach you to triple tap instead of double tap anymore. The bottom line is you shoot until the subject is no longer a threat. What I look for in a gun is reliability first, accuracy second, magazine capacity third, and fast follow up shots fourth. Then I start to think about caliber.

Just remember when I put two in your heart and one in your head it doesn't matter what caliber I'm using. With any gun you need to work towards its strengths and not its weaknesses.
 

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Keep in mind that the 5.7x28mm round is a pistol cartridge, not a rifle cartridge. Comparing the 5.7 to a .223 or 7.62x39 is comparing apples to oranges. Even though it's possible to get a .223 in a similar sized platform to the P90, such a configuration, like a short OAL configured MP5 chambered in .223, would be more powerful but also a lot more unwieldy and followup shots would be harder to place well.

So, to keep any terminal ballistic comparisons in context, one must compare the 5.7x28mm to other pistol rounds that are commonly used in carbines & SMGs. The 9mm parabellum, .40 S&W, 10mm and .45 ACP are good candidates for a more objective comparison.

When thinking about terminal ballistics, the single most important question you need answered is: How fast will a well placed round incapacitate the target? One theory states that a round can do this through a form of shock (hydrostatic) which causes disorientation and loss of motor function. The round can also stop a target the "clinical way" by destroying the nervous system by dropping the target's blood pressure and/or blood oxygen level until the target loses consciousness, or causing direct trauma to the nervous system.

When firing a well placed group into an unarmored target at close range, I would expect that the .45ACP and 10mm cartridges would have much quicker time to incapacitation than similarly placed 5.7x28mm impacts. However, that's on unarmored targets only, the presence of personal protective equipment (PPE) is the exact problem the 5.7x28mm was designed to solve. Even the most basic modern PPE can stop, or seriously diminish the energy of .45ACP or 10mm. SS190, and to some rumored extent SS192/195 ammunition will break through armor at the expense of desired terminal ballistic characteristics. Another tradeoff comes in the form of range. An MP5/10 has a max range of about 150m, with it's max effective range considerably less than that (100m or so). The 5.7x28mm can out-range this two fold, again at the expense of impact energy (40 gr projectile Vs. 185 gr). *

Everything in the science of ballistics is a trade off. The trade off's made in the design of 5.7x28mm were made to facilitate versatility. The P90 can act as an armor piercing close quarters SMG, or as a slightly underpowered assault rilfe if nescessary. The different types of rounds available in 5.7x28mm maximize this versatility.

For self defense, in my home and at close range, I'm going to grab my Mossberg 500 w/ 00 buck. However, in other situations I wouldn't have a problem using my PS90 w/ SS197 for self defense. In a self defense situation I would assume that my target would not be armored. The V-MAX bullet isn't very suitable for penetrating PPE, but it is a vicious little round. I've fired these bullets at water jugs, plywood, and various other materials, and they do exactly what they are supposed to do. They practically explode.. Upon impact the V-MAX fragments and tumbles, which I assume would create secondary wound channels full of lacerations. If I hit an exterior wall, I'm confident the V-MAX would fragment and lose energy after passing through the sheetrock and stucco, reducing the risk of damage to the neighbors.

So, with the PS90, you aren't going to get the shock of a powerful big hit, but if using the right bullet, your target could be just as dead and not know it yet. You trade that big powerful hit for other options, like range, versatility and follow up shot placement.

* - It's entirely possible, though I have no sources to verify it, that the 5.7x28mm may have more energy than 10mm at 100 meters. The 10mm is heavy and not very aerodynamic, it's possible that it's velocity is severely diminished at this range.
 

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ShipWreck said:
john_anderson_ii said:
Keep in mind that the 5.7x28mm round is a pistol cartridge, not a rifle cartridge.
Actually, the P90 was made first - and the Five Seven came later....

I was just pointing out that each manufacturer I've read who has load data for the 5.7x28mm has it listed as a pistol cartridge, as does wikipedia and every other source of information on this round I've read. I don't what criteria is used to differentiate between pistol and rifle cartridges, but the applied use of the 5.7x28mm does more closely coincide with that of pistol cartridges.
 

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I think the basic question is .... is their any rhyme or reason to the current gun/ammo laws? Anwser=NO. There is no reason for ammo or gun laws as currently see them today.

Look you can have rifle brass firing pistol projectils and they call it rifle ammo (ie. M1 Carbine 30.Cal) You can have AP rifle ammo that fires from a rifle or pistol (AR-15 .223). You can convert a 1911 45acp pistol into a rifle and the ammo is still considered pistol ammo. Hell you can buy pistols that fire shotgun shells, and you can buy shotgun shells that fire stainless steel balls. You can even buy pistols that fire 30-06 rounds.

Like I said there is no rhyme or reason. Just stupid laws written by idiots.
 
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