[fathermorpheus]

Has anyone else seen this thing? If it works, and works well, it might be considered the red-neck version of a PS-90.

http://www.rhinelandarms.com/57/model_r57.htm

What do you think?

FM

 

[Thermallator]

Neat concept. It has few flaws however. If you are going to toat a full size M4, why not just fire the .223 ? It has superior ballistics anyways.

The other item is going to be cost. I'm sure it will be around $900 mark.

If the upper was say ... $300 - I might get it just as a backup.

-TH

 

[fathermorpheus]

I wrote them a letter and it looks like you are dead on. They are saying it would run about $900 total and like $500 for the upper.

If you already have a lower around, it would save you some cash. But your statement about 'why not just use a .223' is fairly dead on. Of course, 'because it is just cool' would be a valid excuse to get one, right?

FM

 

[HK Shooter]

Only "benefit" would be the cool 50rd magazine, but there are 100rd Betas out there, so what is the point?

 

[Thermallator]

5.7x29 was made as a "personal defense" cartridge. The PS90 platform delivers that just fine.

Adapting a platform that was meant for a .223 to deliver the 5.7x29 is like using a cement truck to patch a hole in your dry wall.

The only redeeming factor here is the trigger pull and familiar ergonomics of the AR family of firearms. Having said that - why not just use the appropriate ammo the gun was designed for?

Even at $500.00 for the upper, one would be sacrificing terminal balistics, the barrel still has to be 16" - the bullpup design is gone so the compactness is also gone.

In essence, you can just download the .223 to the same speed as the 5.7 and you got the same damn thing without spending any money at all.

It's a dud from the gate.

IMHO.

-TH

 

[metroplex]

You're taking a solid 5.56x45 platform and using a cartridge that is more expensive and has less lethality and reduced range. Notwithstanding, you are also using an expensive magazine that can wear out very easily.

The AR15 is far superior to the PS90 in every aspect except for size. The PS90 is very compact and the SBR'd PS90s are superior in terms of size, ergonomics, and handling.

 

[Promoted Pawn]

I can think of three special instances where a tactical operator may want the weaker cartridge.
1 The 5.7 may be better if an AP round with less over-penetration is called for.
2 If subsonic munitions are called for the .223 cartridge is just a waste of space..
3 Due to recoil the 5.7 is more accurate than the .223 in full auto.

I think that for these reasons the weapon may have some appeal to those organizations that train with AR style weapons.

 

[metroplex]

I can think of three special instances where a tactical operator may want the weaker cartridge.
1 The 5.7 may be better if an AP round with less over-penetration is called for.
2 If subsonic munitions are called for the .223 cartridge is just a waste of space..
3 Due to recoil the 5.7 is more accurate than the .223 in full auto.

I think that for these reasons the weapon may have some appeal to those organizations that train with AR style weapons.

1). 5.7 doesn't have enough penetration to begin with. 5.56x45 is the best way to go: good penetration, fragmentation/tumbling, and enough power to punch through soft body armor without the need for "AP" bullets.

3). Standard military doctrine doesn't seem to train soldiers in full auto marksmanship anyhow. You want accuracy? Fire single shots.

The AR-57 is a fun tool but IMHO, it is a step backwards.

 

[Thermallator]

I can think of three special instances where a tactical operator may want the weaker cartridge.
1 The 5.7 may be better if an AP round with less over-penetration is called for.
2 If subsonic munitions are called for the .223 cartridge is just a waste of space..
3 Due to recoil the 5.7 is more accurate than the .223 in full auto.

I think that for these reasons the weapon may have some appeal to those organizations that train with AR style weapons.

1). 5.7 doesn't have enough penetration to begin with. 5.56x45 is the best way to go: good penetration, fragmentation/tumbling, and enough power to punch through soft body armor without the need for "AP" bullets.

3). Standard military doctrine doesn't seem to train soldiers in full auto marksmanship anyhow. You want accuracy? Fire single shots.

The AR-57 is a fun tool but IMHO, it is a step backwards.

I concur. Good post metroplex. But - and this is a well known "but" - whatever float's anyones boat.

They still sell S&W 357 mag revolvers with 12 inch barrels and they can't seem to keep thos in stock. He he.

I'm sure they will sell a bunch of these AR's, but I doubt it would be the seasoned knowledgable operator that would pick one up.

-TH

 

[Promoted Pawn]

I can think of three special instances where a tactical operator may want the weaker cartridge.
1 The 5.7 may be better if an AP round with less over-penetration is called for.
2 If subsonic munitions are called for the .223 cartridge is just a waste of space..
3 Due to recoil the 5.7 is more accurate than the .223 in full auto.

I think that for these reasons the weapon may have some appeal to those organizations that train with AR style weapons.

1). 5.7 doesn't have enough penetration to begin with. 5.56x45 is the best way to go: good penetration, fragmentation/tumbling, and enough power to punch through soft body armor without the need for "AP" bullets.

3). Standard military doctrine doesn't seem to train soldiers in full auto marksmanship anyhow. You want accuracy? Fire single shots.

The MP5 has such wide appeal for its ability to accurately deliver a stream of bullets. I had a roommate who was a navy rescue diver and as such he was often a member of boarding parties. He says they used, MP5s, and not M4s, because of the risk of over-penetration. I think a carbine loaded with 5.7 would have been a better alternative than the 9mm.

 

[metroplex]

That was part of the old mentality of 9mm Luger having less penetration than 5.56x45. LEOs are now switching to M4s because FMJ 9mm Luger will just as easily overpenetrate a person or wall but won't have the same terminal effects as 5.56x45 (M193 fragmentation/tumbling).

 

[ShipWreck]

Well, I guess this is going no where...

The link doesn't work now to that particular page - and I thought I read somewhere else that they decided not to sell it... Oh well..

 

[Esteves]

User banned and ALL posts removed

 

[AGG]

Hideous, watered-down version of a venerable weapon. What an atrocity!