[Canyon Man]

I've included a vid below. I've seen it SEVERAL times now - Glock jams while being rapid fired by law enforcement in intense situations. I know most LEO agencies use Glocks, so perhaps I'm getting a one sided view and opinion. I'm also thinking jams due to limp wristing are more prevalent in 9mm too. I'm also wondering if today's dual return spring assemblies are more susceptible to limp wrist induced malfunctions. They do seem to help with recoil, but do they exacerbate the problem ? I have a Gen 3 Glock 19 and Gen 4 23. I have Smith & Wesson compacts in 9mm and .40 - and the full sized 5 inch 2.0 - And of course my 2 FNS long slides in .40 cal.

I have intentionally held all my pistols very loose to see what it takes to cause a malfunction due to limp wristing. I can't get my .40 cals to jam. I had a Gen 4 Glock 19, and went back to a Gen 3 - and the Gen 4 was easier to induce a malfunction than my Gen 3. That Gen 3 is a work horse ! I'm going to have to retest my 9 mm Smith 2.0 compact, because I just can't remember how it did. I'm shooting my .40's 95 percent of the time. I only own the 9 mm's because the gun world is pretty much forcing me into it. They basically just sit and collect dust.

I know I've seen several threads regarding the 9mm FNS pistols having malfunctions until they are broken in. FNS also has stiff recoil springs, but heavier frames than Glocks - and if I'm not mistaken, I don't think FNS pistols use dual recoil springs. Once broken in, I'm not hearing of people having malfunctions due to limp wristing. I know my .40 cal FNS pistols don't have dual springs. I also know my .40 cal pistols breeze through my little torture tests I do too. However, my Gen 3 G 19 also does.

But I'm forming the opinion that 9 mm Glock's with dual recoil springs are more apt to jam due to limp wristing than all other brands of pistols. This is just an opinion I'm forming - I've seen it too many times on these Police shootout type vids, and my own personal experience seems to lean that way too. Am I on to something here ? Curious about other peoples experiences and opinions. I think the shooting starts about 3:55 inito the vid.

 

[thehun]

I have thousands upon thousands of rounds through a Glock. Limp wristing=bad training or not enough.

Unfortunately. Too many police officers do not receive proper weapon training...nor shoot enough to recognize their deficiencies.

 

[SeaMac]

^^^this, all firearms are subject to the maladies of poor or no training^^^

 

[Canyon Man]

I hear you guys, there's a lot of cops out there that aren't exactly proficient with their pistols. This cop seemed to know how to clear the malfunction easily, and seemed he wasn't a complete idiot with his weapon. He was in fact, dumb enough to let the guy go back into his car though lol. There's lots of examples of cops not very proficient with firearms, but there's plenty who are too. The cop in the vid didn't strike me as incompetent.

I've seen at least half dozen vids of Glock jams happening under the same circumstances - fast shooting in practically panic mode. In a situation of close quarters - Oh crap he's trying to kill me - 10 feet away - most of us are going to be point shooting as fast as we can pull the trigger trying to survive. A fast draw, stressed, panicked, probably not the best grip you want because of the fast draw and situation at hand - which yes I know, practice a good grip from your draw, but reality happens - limp wristing can happen. I'm wondering if Glock is more prone to jamming because of limp wrisitng than other pistols.

The frame is so much lighter than other pistols, which leads me to wonder if it flexes more. Perhaps some don't know this, because most are shooting 9 mm, but Glock had a problem with their Gen 3 .40 cal pistols jamming with weapon mounted lights. This is why my Glock 23 - in .40 cal - is a Gen 4. I had trouble with a Gen 3 Glock 35 with a WML, and got rid of it and replaced it with my what I believe to be superior FNS Long slides in .40 cal. I've seen MAC do a vid where he could make any polymer framed pistol jam while being limp wristed, but couldn't replicate it with a steel (or alloy) pistol. So it might just be polymer pistols in general, but my Smith and Wessons have pretty stout frames. I'm gonna shoot a mag per pistol and doing comparisons when shooting in the desert in the future. I don't think it can be taken as scientific, but I'm pretty curious at this point. I've just seen it happen too many times on cop shootout vids now.

 

[thehun]

I don’t know man. I have never had an issue with any generation of Glock (or many other quality poly striker guns). Most police training is very static including malfunction drills (which is a dept failure).

 

[Canyon Man]

I don’t know man. I have never had an issue with any generation of Glock (or many other quality poly striker guns). Most police training is very static including malfunction drills (which is a dept failure).

I've never had a problem at all with limp wristing or had malfunctions because of it either. I had a few jams out of my Gen 4 Glock 23 when I first got it. I forget how often, like one out of every 400 rounds ? I got a steel guide rod, tested it for 1000 rounds, and I sh!t you not, it failed to feed on EXACTLY round 1000 ! lol With the initial plastic guide rod, it was usually on the last round - a couple times rapid firing. So possibly it was limp wristing - but I couldn't replicate the problem when I intentionally limp wristed - and I mean super limp wristing it. So I continued with the steel guide rod, and it unscrewed/came apart while firing. Glock Store sent me a new one for think it was half price. That one still sits new in package and I bought another OEM plastic RSA, and haven't had a jam since - I'm guessing an additional 2000 rounds now ?

But my main EDC is the S&W 2.0 compact - 4 inch barrel. It has never malfunctioned once on me. I'm horrible at round counts after a couple thousand rounds. I'm guessing 3500 to 4000 rounds now. Springs are still stiff and good, and it handles the .40 recoil better than the Glock. I did get it to jam a couple times I should say, but it doesn't really count...I put it through a couple torture tests with pretty identical results - lots of dirt and water - and it took a few times of that to jam it - easy to clear fails to feed. Very comfortable with that particular pistol. I'm pretty comfortable with my G 23 - it did excellent in the torture tests too - but those random fails to feed stick in my mind.

I will not knock Glock - I think they're great pistols. My Gen 3 G 19 outdid my Smith 2.0 compact in the torture test. That Gen 3 G 19 is super reliable. The Smith handles the recoil better on the hot 9mm loads, but the Gen 4 19 I would rate as about even as the Smith I think in the 9mm recoil department. From my experience, the Glock is a tad better in 9mm, and the Smith is noticeably better in . 40 cal. And it makes sense as Glock frames were built around the 9mm round. I wish I could remember how the 2.0 9mm compact Smith did when I limp wristed it. I just don't remember, but it seems it would have stuck in my mind if I had problems with it. Like I say, I'll test it next time I shoot it. I think this aspect of shooting is going to play a significant role in any future gun purchases. I don't really want anything else in handguns right now. That may change if I decide to go with optics on a pistol, or make a full on switch to 9mm. For now, my .40 cal Smiths and FNS long slides have me completely content. But after a less than stellar opinion of the Gen 4 G 19, the WML problem with my Gen 3 Glock 35 - those fail to feeds with my 23, and the fails to feed I'm seeing on cop shootout vids - I've got my eye on you Glock. Someone who seeks out the unusual circumstances is watching over here.

In the end, my opinion is the malfunctions I'm seeing on the vids is due to limp wristing. I haven't had to shoot a pistol on a quick draw while someone else is shooting at me 5 or 10 feet away, so I'm not going to bash on the cops for limp wristing. But I still want to know - is 9mm more susceptible to it ? And are Glocks more susceptible to it ? People wanna' know. lol I am leaning towards it's more of a 9mm thing - and heavier RSO springs exacerbate the issue. I've fired over 75 thousand rounds of pistol ammo in my life I bet - and other than questioning my Glock 23's early on fail to feeds, have never had an issue with limp wristing malfunctions. So I may be overthinking the whole thing - but seeing all those fail to feeds in cop vids has caught my attention no doubt.

 

[thehun]

I can't count how many times I've seen Glocks fail due to none OEM guide rods...as well as fancy triggers...

To be honest...I can make any handgun malfunction with limp wristing...limp wristing is not the guns fault...its the users...

If you put a good firm grip..even if it isn't 100% spot on...limp wrist malfunction do not happen...

 

[Gray_Ghost]

The only time I've ever had that issue was when first learning how to shoot from retention, and on my FNX-45 at that. Not realizing at the time that the RSA is really stiff until broken in. Once I corrected that, and put more rounds through the FNX-45, I haven't had an issue since. My only Glock is a G20, so I don't know if that makes a difference vs the medium framed models, but I've never had that issue with it, nor with the M&P 40c, M&P Pro CORE, or FNX-40 (which I also have 9mm barrels for, plus 357 for the Pro CORE).