[Merlin]

So it seems that all the inquiries to the ATF about the 'legality' of using a SIG Brace on a 'pistol' as a stock made them "clarify" and change by how it is used.

ATF Contradicts Itself: Don't Use SIG Brace As A Shoulder Stock Without An NFA Stamp - The Truth About Guns

 

[farmerted]

So it seems that all the inquiries to the ATF about the 'legality' of using a SIG Brace on a 'pistol' as a stock made them "clarify" and change by how it is used.

ATF Contradicts Itself: Don't Use SIG Brace As A Shoulder Stock Without An NFA Stamp - The Truth About Guns

That's not what it says, read the document.

 

[bayonet14]

That's it - keep pestering ATF like you did when you were a kid (to your parents) - they will reverse it and make things worse for all.

“if this device, un-modified or modified; is assembled to a pistol and used as a shoulder stock, thus designing or redesigning or making or remaking of a weapon design to be fired from the shoulder; this assembly would constitute the making of a “rifle” as defined in 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(7).”

Read more here: http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/12/2...ry-tale-of-an-ar-pistol-to-sbr-through-magic/

EXCERPT:

FTISB correctly finds that the SIG Brace is NOT designed or intended for firing a weapon from the shoulder. In its original determination letter, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) found that the brace when attached to a firearm did not convert it to be fired from the shoulder and would not alter the classification of the firearm.

FTISB says the same thing in the beginning of this new determination but goes on to say that if it is USED as a shoulder stock the classification changes. We are left to extrapolate that FTISB arrives at this conclusion because the user must have designed or redesigned or made or remade the firearm to be fired from the shoulder. Of course, they are careful to not acknowledge where that act actually occurs which poses all kinds of issues.

But did the end user actually design or redesign or make or remake the firearm by shouldering a firearm equipped with the SIG Brace? I think not. NFA defines the term “make” for us.


“Make.—The term “make”, and the various derivatives of such word, shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such a business under this chapter), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm.” 26 U.S.C. § 5845(i)

 

[six-n-twins]

Exactly! Who the hell keeps emailing the ATF and asking " are you sure?, are you sure?"
After you gain a small victory, don't revisit the argument. It's like one of my instructors used to say, "You just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory."

 

[MEvans1993]

I see another lawsuit coming... As it's always argued, they can't tell you how to shoot a gun.

The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:


How many here shoot handguns with one hand? By their new "ruling" we create AOW's?

 

[Rattyxj00]

I honestly think it would be in our(those who love freedom) best interest to pull our funds together to buy a substantial sized island or country so that we can export there: all the socialist, gun grabber, wanna-be-perpetual-kindergartner, RINOs, Dems, sycophants, thugs and killjoy GOINOs(gun owners in name only) so that we can assist them to elect a King and live under absolute tyranny for ever and ever after. I really would just like to see those folks happy...that's all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Merlin]

That's not what it says, read the document.

You sure about that? As bayonet posted exert from the second letter says if you use the brace as a stock it will be considered a rifle. Now, how they determine that and enforce it is something else.

 

[s4mur41h4x0r]

Those assholes just had to keep on pressing this...this is what happens when you cant leave well enough alone. I never bought the brace, but now I am REALLY glad I didn't invest in it at all.

Some questions should never be asked, if they don't have a rule against it, don't ask them to make a ruling or it will go against what you want!! The lack of a rule/law is just as good as one saying you can do it.

 

[Kramer]

Yep the "Letter writers" are at it again. Keep poking the sleeping bear.



One more loss for us.

 

[Shap]

Really glad I went the SBR route instead of relying on ATF's opinion of the moment

 

[SONYtec]

Keep poking the bear with a stick...

Don't use it in a manner it isn't intended!!!

 

[vz58kid]

I for 1 am really PI--Ed off, had my AR pistol since 97 and always wanted to put a stock on it but the reason I never got a SBR stamp or even a C&R license simply is I don't like to be on top of a Govt. Watch list and in my case I live on a border state! Yep I can see 7 states from the top of the Mountain (No, I cant see Russia from my back porch) and with a SBR stamp it would be really hard to shoot in my state and go across the street to get a Burger etc and be in another, or even shoot it in other near States.

From what I see I can leave the Brace on and shoot it as long as I don't shoulder it but doing long range shooting with my pistol has opened a whole new world using the Brace but now?????????

I have seen several comments on other Forums that this Letter may be a Hoax, due to misspelling, bad grammar and punctuation etc... but I don't know!

Seems Sig ought to already should have come out with a statement and or if true buy back their basically now useless Brace (will never happ) also the NRA should step up and get involved but their philosophy basically is as long as we can keep Shotguns for hunting ducks then all is well!

I have property where I can shoot in privacy but if I was to go to a range with the brace and somebody takes a picture with all the technology out there and posts it on Web well one just never knows if the BATF might make one a "Test Case"?!

This is a real Tragedy!


Disclaimer! I am not an ATTY. nor do I play one on TV and the last time I took my own legal advice it cost me dearly! :-D:happyrotfl4vi0:

 

[jhs27275]

basically now useless Brace

Not useless if used as intended.

It was not/and is not a shoulder stock.

Or just pay the $200 and use it anyway you want.

 

[SONYtec]

I for 1 am really PI--Ed off, had my AR pistol since 97 and always wanted to put a stock on it but the reason I never got a SBR stamp or even a C&R license simply is I don't like to be on top of a Govt. Watch list and in my case I live on a border state! Yep I can see 7 states from the top of the Mountain (No, I cant see Russia from my back porch) and with a SBR stamp it would be really hard to shoot in my state and go across the street to get a Burger etc and be in another, or even shoot it in other near States.

From what I see I can leave the Brace on and shoot it as long as I don't shoulder it but doing long range shooting with my pistol has opened a whole new world using the Brace but now?????????

I have seen several comments on other Forums that this Letter may be a Hoax, due to misspelling, bad grammar and punctuation etc... but I don't know!

Seems Sig ought to already should have come out with a statement and or if true buy back their basically now useless Brace (will never happ) also the NRA should step up and get involved but their philosophy basically is as long as we can keep Shotguns for hunting ducks then all is well!

I have property where I can shoot in privacy but if I was to go to a range with the brace and somebody takes a picture with all the technology out there and posts it on Web well one just never knows if the BATF might make one a "Test Case"?!

If you have ever paid taxes, your on a watch list.

Sig does not need to buy back their brace just because anyone wanted to use the brace to shoulder the pistol. It was never marketed it as such, it's a aid to help hold the AR one handed.

The BATFE could be reading your post right now, never mind photo's being taken at a public location.

Use the brace as intended, or sell it. Problem solved.

SBR it, then fill out the paperwork, 5320.20, to export the SBR every year. That problem is solved.

 

[vz58kid]

P556® Classic Pistol with SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace In this link to a Brace equipped pistol for sale by Sig it simply states that the Brace enhances use when used single handed attached to a pistol, it does not say anything about not using it as a stock, but states this Brace will not change the status of the pistol!

Somewhat ambiguous and many bought these Brace equipped pistols to use as they see fit since it doesn't say it cant be shouldered but says it will not affect the classification of the pistol!

 

[jhs27275]

P556® Classic Pistol with SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace In this link to a Brace equipped pistol for sale by Sig it simply states that the Brace enhances use when used single handed attached to a pistol, it does not say anything about not using it as a stock, but states this Brace will not change the status of the pistol!

Somewhat ambiguous and many bought these Brace equipped pistols to use as they see fit since it doesn't say it cant be shouldered but says it will not affect the classification of the pistol!

Right from the Sig web site:

DetailsThe SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace is a shooter's aid that is designed to improve the single-handed shooting performance of buffer tube equipped pistols. Now available in Black and Flat Dark Earth. This veteran-designed and U.S.-manufactured accessory enhances accuracy and reduces felt recoil when using an AR-style pistol .Made from high-quality, elasto-polymer, the SB15 is manufactured to close tolerances and fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter.
The Pistol Stabilizing Brace uses the operator's forearm to provide stable support, thereby minimizing accuracy-robbing spin and shift. A flexible cuff with two adjustable nylon straps allows the SB15 to be custom fit to any user.
Features:

• Fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter.
• ATF compliant*
• Veteran designed
• Made in USA
• Quick and easy to install

* ATF has reviewed this product and determined that attaching the SB15 to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to NFA control.
Note: Also available on P516™ and P556® Pistols in states where permitted. PM400 and P716 models available soon. SIG SAUER donates $3 of every SB15 sold to support the veterans of HAVA.

SIG SAUER SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace

Never marketed or sold as a shoulder stock.

 

[SONYtec]

P556® Classic Pistol with SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace In this link to a Brace equipped pistol for sale by Sig it simply states that the Brace enhances use when used single handed attached to a pistol, it does not say anything about not using it as a stock, but states this Brace will not change the status of the pistol!

Somewhat ambiguous and many bought these Brace equipped pistols to use as they see fit since it doesn't say it cant be shouldered but says it will not affect the classification of the pistol!

Sig, or any other company, isn't going to advertise any sort of use other than what an item was designed and intended for. They aren't going to state "Hey, don't use it this way..." Why would you want to give the idea to use it improperly to someone who never thought of using it that way???

They don't want the liability if some ass hat using it in that manner, gets in trouble.

 

[vz58kid]

OK didn't know all that!

 

[jhs27275]

If it looks and walks like a Duck surely its one, looks like a stock to me and many others who bought it, so must be a stock!

Attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol without the proper paperwork and tax stamp is a violation of the NFA.

This is sold and marketed as an arm brace. not a shoulder stock.

End of story.

 

[Turnanewleaf]

Doesn't the letter just answer the person's question? The person is building an AR pistol, not buying one already manufactured. If he builds one, attaches the sig brace and intends to use it as a shoulder stock, then it would be a rifle. If the rifle is less than 16", then NFA rules apply. There....question answered.

But let's ask a different question. If I buy a sig 556 pistol with the sig brace already attached, can I fire it from my hip, from my head, from my shoulder, upside down, or laying down? I think the first two letters already answered that question. And I think the answer is yes.

The tricky part of this third letter is manufacturing the firearm. Of course I may be wrong, but that's what it appears to me.