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Well, I have some good news and some bad news. First some background. When I saw the first video I found others. The most convincing had the 509m sitting in a 5 gallon bucket until all the bubbles stopped, approximately 10 seconds.

I did the same with both the FN striker and the Apex. I shot 40 rounds, 20 of Lawman 124gr and 20 of Lawman 147gr. 10rds of 124gr with FN striker, 10rds of 124gr with Apex followed with 10rds 147gr with FN striker and 147gr with Apex.

I did not let the 509 drain, I did not purposely shake or in anyway attempt to clear the water from the pistol. I had the bucket near enough in height so to replicate drawing from my 3 O'clock carry position. Once the bubbles stopped I reached in the bucket, gripped my 509 raising it out of the bucket then immediately firing.

The verdict, at no time with either grain weight ammo would my 509 fire with the FN striker, not even a light primer strike. This is frightening to me. This was the bad news.

The good news, sort of, with the Apex striker and 147gr ammo my 509 fired twice. No other time and again no light primer strikes. This is even more frightening to me.

For some this test might seem pointless or extreme, not for me. There is a reason the DOD now requires all light weapons to function OTB. I personally would rather not tempt fate or disturb the Laws of Murphy.

This is actually very upsetting to me, I had very high hopes for my 509. I do like Glocks and have owned them since they were first imported to the US. Still though, I have to do a considerable amount of work to make a G19 work for me. The 509 fit my hand like a glove, pointed as if a literal extension of my arm and the ergos are phenomenal. This hydrolocking issue is an absolute deal breaker for me.

My 509 will be returning from whence it came....back to GB.
 

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I echo your sentiments Seamac. I live in the desert now, and can't bring myself to sell mine. I have plenty of mags and spare parts too. If you let it drain a few seconds, the 509 will fire. And there is always racking the slide right away after submersion if need be. But yeah, it seems almost criminal to submit a pistol for military trials that doesn't fire after submersion. Mine are .40 cals, and I don't think I could get enough money for them to be worth selling. I keep one of my FNS .40's in the night stand with a light mounted on it. My preference is one brand for a family of pistols, but that's not how it has worked out for me lol. I have found out through years of shooting, sometimes your favorite gun isn't necessarily your best gun. The gun world is full of not quite perfect guns lol.
 

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I echo your sentiments Seamac. I live in the desert now, and can't bring myself to sell mine. I have plenty of mags and spare parts too. If you let it drain a few seconds, the 509 will fire. And there is always racking the slide right away after submersion if need be. But yeah, it seems almost criminal to submit a pistol for military trials that doesn't fire after submersion. Mine are .40 cals, and I don't think I could get enough money for them to be worth selling. I keep one of my FNS .40's in the night stand with a light mounted on it. My preference is one brand for a family of pistols, but that's not how it has worked out for me lol. I have found out through years of shooting, sometimes your favorite gun isn't necessarily your best gun. The gun world is full of not quite perfect guns lol.
Letting it drain a few seconds cost seconds I might not have to spare. Again, it may seem extreme to some but Florida is surrounded by H2O, I virtually live, work and recreate near, on and or in water salt and fresh. It behooves me to have my EDC be able to live there too without issue.

The predecessors to Florida's FWC (Fish and Wildlife Commission) were the GFC (Game & Freshwater Fish Commission) and FMP (Florida Marine Patrol) respectively, they carried revolvers until Glock came ashore, they carry nothing but Glocks now.

As many times as I've tried and until the perfect thought controlled, distributed energy, only owner shootable pistol is created it looks like Gaston's creation and I like birds of a feather shall Glock together.

It is quite possible the LS Edge's striker addresses the hydrolock problem. It is an entirely different striker, but I'm not buying an Edge for a trigger shoe and striker. That to me is extreme!
 
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Since Kaz didn't have any issues at all with his submersion test, it makes me wonder.....How old is Kaz's pistol ? Is it possible FN has secretly addressed this issue, and on later model pistols water submersion is not a problem ? I kind of doubt it, but it is possible. Kaz is using the Apex striker too, so I would imagine whatever change they may have done would be with the striker channel, not the striker itself. I tilt my barrel down towards the ground when I let mine drain. I thought for years my FNS longslides would fire after submersion, but it was those few seconds I allowed to drain water from the barrel that made it possible. But I agree with Seamac - In this modern day, we should not have to wonder if a striker fired pistol will work after being submerged in water. This should be something incorporated into the design from the beginning. When you need your pistol, you need it right away, not 5 seconds later, and if you are frequently around water.... If FN pistols worked coming out of the water, I wouldn't own my Glocks and Smiths. I rate the need to work after submersion pretty high too.
 

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@SeaMac did you test with salt or fresh water?

Also how do you gents re-lube your guns after a dunk in water? Particularly salt
 
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Wonder what's different between your test and mine, @SeaMac. I used Winchester practice ammo, nothing special.
$6 million question @Kaz, I haven't a clue. I will say this though, had it failed to fire just once it still would have failed my 1500rd zero failure EDC acceptance test. I will now have to add a submersion/immersion test.
 

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@SeaMac did you test with salt or fresh water?

Also how do you gents re-lube your guns after a dunk in water? Particularly salt
I tested mine in fresh well water. If a firearm of mine goes in freshwater I just let it air dry then wipe a light lube on. If brackish or salt to any degree it gets completely stripped down, thoroughly cleaned an entirely re-lubed. Saltwater is hell on any metal..
 
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IIRC I bought it around 01/17/19. Give or take a day.
Also, this is a 509C

If we had video! We could examine and evaluate the differences lol!

If someone would invent a stand, I can take videos! :D

Just ordered a new mobile, should be here in a few days. Bought a case that has a stand built-in, so I'll be able to video the test.

@FN47 Fresh water here as well. I use my own oil concoction.
 

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IIRC I bought it around 01/17/19. Give or take a day.
Also, this is a 509C




If someone would invent a stand, I can take videos! :D
@LESTER knows how to stand, I skipped that class. I know how to saunter, slither and sit, me no know how stand.
 
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@SeaMac did you test with salt or fresh water?

Also how do you gents re-lube your guns after a dunk in water? Particularly salt
I clean the same for fresh and salt water, but with more intensity and break fee after salt water. It's really not difficult at all. Keep in mind, when I do a submersion test, I usually go ahead and throw dirt or sand onto the pistol to see how it does too... I figure I'm going to do the same breakdown and cleaning procedure whether I do that or not . I start with the lower grip module. I do not remove any parts from the grip module at all - nothing at all. I run it under hot water in the sink for 2 or three minutes first. I shake dry it until the water stops splattering onto the counter - about a minute. Then I use a can of Breakfree CLP and and spray it into the grip module, moving the slide release up and down, and pull the trigger back, and manually forward again, and spray it down real good. Then I rinse it under hot water again for a couple of minutes. If it's exposed to salt water, I'd recomend repeating the process. I think I spend longer rinsing the CLP out than the sand and or dirt. It actually risnses out quite easily. I bet if I removed the components, I may find a grain of sand here or there, but I've never seen any or had any grittiness or any trouble after cleaning. After rinsing the CLP out with hot water, I use a blow dryer to blow hot air into the lower - with very gentle use - I don't get it hot - a little more than slightly worm. I do this to dry any water that may be resting against the pins and small springs possibly. Then I set it up in front of a fan, and let the fan blow air on it over night. I've never had any rust appear anywhere on my pistols. In the morning, it's clean, and absolutely dry.

For the upper slide assembly, I tear it down, removing the striker assembly, and the extractor. On the Smith and Wesson 2.0 pistols, you have to remove the rear sight to remove I forget what the part is called - striker block spring ? - gees I don't know - but I've never found any sand or even water inside that area, so unless it's salt water, I'll never remove the rear sight to clean in their again. That's good info to know about if you own an M&P 2.0. That area stays clean no matter what you do to the pistol - it's pretty tightly sealed. But you don't need to remove the sights from your other pistols - or I never have - except for the M&P's the first couple of times because of that spring being located under the rear sight. (I might add - punch Smith's designer in the face for who came up with that idea lol) But with extracor and striker removed, I use Hoppes #9 to clean it - I'm sure clp would do - but since I have a lot of Hoppes - and I submerged it - I use the Hoppes because it's a tougher cleaner. I clean iside the striker channel - but I do use some clp or even oil in there because of it's lubricating elements. BUT - I completely remove all oil or CLP after a couple of minutes. As you know, you want your striker channel completely dry. I just put in a couple extra minutes with that step because it gives me confidence I won't find rust in there one day lol. It's basically just a general cleaning of the slide and striker. I pay extra attention to where the extractor fits in , and use q-tips to get in all the rails and grooves and the extractor area. I then run a coat of oil on it and let it sit for about five minutes, and then wipe the oll off. I then put oil on the rails where I generally do with a regular cleaning, and put the pistol back together the next morning - because I let the lower sit in front of the fan blowing all night.

I find this process to actually be a little bit of an over kill on cleaning. But believe it or not, I take very good care of my firearms. I keep them very clean and properly lubricated. I'm a .40 cal guy - and I have a Glock 19 and a compact M&P 2.0 in 9mm. I only own them because the gun world insists I have a couple, and I fear .40 cal ammo may not even make it to store shelves one day lol. So those pistols just sit and collect dust - never really get used - but I still clean them every 4 or 5 months, just to put a little oil on them and keep them looking new and ready to use. I simply like to know if my firearms will work if dropped in water, or dirt and sand. I like to know how dirty they can get before I expect a problem. 99% chance my guns will never get as dirty as they do in testing, but I absolutely know what I can expect out of them. Once they are tested, there is no real reson to do it again - however I like to run the pistols 2 or 3 times thru my little routine looking for consistent results. And I absolutely have a need to know how my pistols hold up. Just general use in the outdoors - Suppose you roll around shooting your rifle prone in the field with your pistol on your hip...cross a stream - fall in mud or snow - I've done all those things. The FNS pistols got tested way more than any other guns I own because of the whole water submersion issues. Man I'm a long winded poster - Sorry to take a half page to answer a question.
 

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Great vid Kaz. Thanks for posting it up. I'm going to go out on a limb here - and it's just my opinion - no hard facts other than your vid versus many others and my own experience with my pistols....I'm willing to bet the farm - AND - all the animals that FN has discreetly made a design change. I know the Apex striker has no effect versus the FN striker - so one of two things - Either FN has done something with the striker channel, or they have made a new striker. I hate to ask, but if Kaz is willing to remove his striker, perhaps post some pics of it, we can determine if it's a new striker or if they have done something with the striker channel. And good luck getting a picture of that lol. But there is DEFINITELY something different. I'm hoping it's a new striker that can be purchased and is interchangeable with my FNS long slide. After all the reports of strikers breaking, I would think they made a change to the striker itself, and made it so it would work after submersion. Those are some sneaky little guys over there at FN it looks like lol. But this vid is big news - HUGE as a matter of fact. I'm gonna' have to reflect a little bit, but could this vid be the best news in the history of my life ?! lol Thanks again Kaz - You have done this forum a trmendous service !!!

EDIT: What's that you ask ? Oh well heck yeah I'll be calling FN tomorrow ! Will they give me an honest answer you ask ? Will they tell me they made a change ? I'll let you know tomorrow night ! What's that you ask ? Am I excited ? Oh well heck yeah I am !!! lol
 

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@Ely010606 . Apex striker with factory RN ammo, not sure what brand or weight. It's just loose training ammo I used to buy by the case. I'm pretty sure it's Winchester branded, though.

@Canyon Man , I'll see if I can find the factory striker. I'm sure it's.... well, somewhere.


ps. This is with the striker spring retainer installed. There was a thread a while back where someone lost the little tab and upon checking, I realized I had lost it too, when replacing the striker. Wasn't going to worry too much about it, but then MGE got them in stock and ordered one just because.
 
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