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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I want to hear from anybody and everybody; especially those who are experienced in reloading the 30-06, any experts on the aught-six, and any 30-06 History experts.

First off, I'm quoting from Wikipedia here.

"For these reasons, in 1926, the Ordnance Corps developed the .30 M1 Ball cartridge loaded with a new Improved Military Rifle (IMR) 1185 propellant and 174-grain (11.3 g) bullet with a 9° boat tail that had a higher ballistic coefficient of roughly 0.494 G1,[SUP][7][/SUP] that achieved a muzzle velocity of 2,640 ft/s (800 m/s) and muzzle energy of 2,692 ft·lbf (3,650 J). This bullet further reduced air resistance in flight, resulting in less rapid downrange deceleration, less lateral drift caused by crosswinds, and significantly greater supersonic and maximum effective range from machine guns and rifles alike. Its maximum range was approximately 5,500 yd (5,030 m).[SUP][8][/SUP] Additionally, a gilding metal jacket was developed that all but eliminated the metal fouling that plagued the earlier M1906 cartridge.


As a big fan of the century year old 30.06 and wanting to own a bolt-action in that same chambering (as well as wanting a Noreen BN36 n 30.06) I am curious to know what could equal the posted results and what modern powders could be used. I am also curious as to what the max. range and maximum effective range of a 30.06 with a 174gr with 9 degree BT-FMJ with a modern powder equivalent to the old IMR 1185 to achieve the 'theoretical 5500 yd range (I'm calling bull chips on that).

Could anyone help me out here??

Thanks in advance.

Knightewolfe

ps., if there were any of this old M1 ball left over, would it be safe to use in a modern 30-06 bolt-action?
 

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Easy to find a modern powder and load that will match or beat that velocity with 175s. As for the historical stuff, can't help you there. I imagine the M1 load would be safe in any modern bolt gun.
Hodgdon Suprform .308" 3.300" 53.0 2,609 42,600 PSI 58.7 2,881 59,400 PSI
Hodgdon H4831 .308" 3.300" 57.0 2,535 38,300 CUP 61.5C 2,719 44,400 CUP
Hodgdon Varget .308" 3.300" 45.0 2,551 41,700 CUP 48.0 2,694 49,000 CUP
IMR IMR 4895 .308" 3.300" 46.0 2,619 51,600 PSI 49.0 2,741 58,100 PSI
Hodgdon H4895 .308" 3.300" 43.8 2,584 44,100 CUP 46.7 2,700 49,000 CUP
 

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Cal .30 M1 was the standard during development of the M1 Garand but it was pretty much obsolete by the time the Garand was used in any numbers.

For the M1 Garand - M2 Ball


Powders:
burn these into your memory: IMR-3031, IMR-4064, and IMR-4895 or use a powder that falls between them on the burn-rate chart.

Not"close", "not similar", not "pretty much thesame", but those exactly.

Use powders within this narrow band and you'll be fine. Stray too far outside and you'll quickly run into trouble.

Do not exceed 2,750 fps with a 150gr bullet or 2,700 fps with a 168gr match bullet. Doing so will lead to grief, a bent op rod and a big repair bill. Trying to use less will lead to a short-stroking rifle.

For Bullet weights: on the low end you can use 147 gr FMJ load them as if they were 150gr and your GTG.
On the upper end your limit is 175gr to 178gr bullets, any heavier and you have two bad choices: really sedate velocities or excessive port pressure, leading to a bent op rod again.
Whatever you use should have a pointed bullet to ensure reliable feeding.

Trim your cases every time in order to prevent a premature discharge. size your case so you bump the shoulder back until it meets the minimum on the case gauge and is flush with the bottom of the groove.

Trim Length: Trim your casesto 2.484"

Primers: Invest in mil-spec primers. CCI makes its #34 primer which has a harder cup than regular primers that you would reload with to ensure you don’t have a slam fire when that M1 bolt slams a cartridge into the chamber.

M2 Ball shoots great in 1903 Springfields, 1917 Eddystone's, and of course the M1 Garand! :)
 

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The M1 Ball round was developed after World War I to improve the effective range of machine guns. It used a ballistically efficient bullet of 174 grains with a 9 degree boat tail, and had a muzzle velocity of about 2600 feet per second. The round worked well and retained a lot of velocity at longer ranges. The solution was the adoption of the M2 Ball cartridge to replace it in 1938.

#1 Why not just shoot to M2 ball specs or buy CMP Greek HXP ammo and then reload the brass?
#2 M1 Ball is not particularly accurate, any commercial match bullet will outperform it and probably any Sierra bullet they make.

47 grains of IMR 4895 168 grain match king works well. Always begin at start loads and look for pressure signs first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I want to thank all of you ho responded my inquiry. Though I don't reload (Don't know how) I am grateful for all of your responses to my question. I was basically just asking for information on that particular round and wanted to know the main reason why the Army switched from M1 ball to M2 ball.

Also, could a similar load work for a 25-06 (am thinking about getting one of those in the far future).


Thanks again.

W
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The OP is asking about bolt guns.
1Kay, I was also thinking about if the original M1 ball load (or a reasonable modern facsimile) would work in a 30-06 semi-auto. like the Noreeen BN36.

Thanks again.

KW
 

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It should... "modern" semis are built to handle full-power .30-06 loads. Unlike the Garands, which have a very specific window of powder burn rate, bullet weights, and velocity for safe and reliable operation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It should... "modern" semis are built to handle full-power .30-06 loads. Unlike the Garands, which have a very specific window of powder burn rate, bullet weights, and velocity for safe and reliable operation.
Thanks, now to find a way to get the $1800 for a Noreen BN36.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Okay. On the same topic, how much velocity would a 30.06 lose out of a 16in barrel. I'm asking because Noreen Firearms recently started manufacturing
an aught six AR-pattern carbine with a sixteen inch barrel.
Its over at Noreen Firearms.

KW
 

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Using factory ammunition you will loose roughly about 25 fps per inch of barrel loss in barrels between 18 to 26 inches long. I suppose I dont have to state that the muzzle blast is going to be pretty fierce, lol
 

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As a big fan of the century year old 30.06 and wanting to own a bolt-action in that same chambering (as well as wanting a Noreen BN36 n 30.06) I am curious to know what could equal the posted results and what modern powders could be used. I am also curious as to what the max. range and maximum effective range of a 30.06 with a 174gr with 9 degree BT-FMJ with a modern powder equivalent to the old IMR 1185 to achieve the 'theoretical 5500 yd range (I'm calling bull chips on that).

Could anyone help me out here??

Thanks in advance.

Knightewolfe

ps., if there were any of this old M1 ball left over, would it be safe to use in a modern 30-06 bolt-action?

If you're looking for M1 Ball, you can still find the Lake City made ".30 Cal Match, M72" ammo. From my understanding, it's essentially the same bullet, going about the same speed. The main difference is that as match ammo, even factory loaded, it was made with more care, and the results were a more accurate round.

The load I worked up in my M1917 Eddystone was a 175gr SMK on top of 46gr of RL-15. It's not a perfect duplicate, namely the BTHP SMK instead of a the FMJ/BT that the original used, but it's about as close as you can get with modern materials.
 

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I have issues with some Military .30-06 in my bolt gun. Have to get a chamber gauge, but ammo was definitely hot. Had a hard time opening the bolt once fired, to eject the spent round.

Shot extremely accurate, dime covered the hole at a hundred yards.
 
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