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Hay Ship,
Do you think I should get the 5.7 pistol.. I know you are going to say yes.. I just cant make myself get one....HELP!!!!
 

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Looks like someone needs a little push, and I picked mine up last week too!

So don't get left behind, since that little issue with the uncertainty of firing OOB will soon resolve itself. Take the plunge and drink the Kool Aid!

:?
 

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DAUG said:
So don't get left behind, since that little issue with the uncertainty of firing OOB will soon resolve itself. Take the plunge and drink the Kool Aid!

:?
As far as I am concerned, it has resolved itself. It's much ado about nothing. Stick to factory ammo and its not an issue. I'm not worried.
 

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Its a great gun. There is nothing wrong with it except that it needs better sights (IMO). Fun to shoot and more accurate than I am. Like ship said stick to factory ammo seems like the safest way(maybe reloads with unfired brass but not the route I would take).

That being said if you are not sure you want it don't buy it. Its very expensive for a well maybe type purchase.

my two cents
 

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ShipWreck said:
DAUG said:
So don't get left behind, since that little issue with the uncertainty of firing OOB will soon resolve itself. Take the plunge and drink the Kool Aid!

:?
As far as I am concerned, it has resolved itself. It's much ado about nothing. Stick to factory ammo and its not an issue. I'm not worried.
I doubt that it has anything to do with a reload.

That being said, I will await and see what FNH has to say about it.

By their own admission, FNH has stated that the firearm will fire with the slide as much as .1580 inch (I beleive that is the correct measurement) set back. While FNH may not consider this OOB it needs to be looked at and discussed further. This set back is not limited to the FsN but can happen with the PS90 as well. It is just the design of a blow back system.
 

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I disagree - There is some very good info floating around on this site and others. I think it IS related to the reloads... But, we'll see.
 

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HK SD9 Tactical
As far as I am concerned, it has resolved itself. It's much ado about nothing. Stick to factory ammo and its not an issue. I'm not worried.

I doubt that it has anything to do with a reload.

That being said, I will await and see what FNH has to say about it.

By their own admission, FNH has stated that the firearm will fire with the slide as much as .1580 inch (I beleive that is the correct measurement) set back. While FNH may not consider this OOB it needs to be looked at and discussed further. This set back is not limited to the FsN but can happen with the PS90 as well. It is just the design of a blow back system.
I remember reading that he said he was using Elites reloading information to load this round. And it appears he made some adjustments of his own.

I had loaded 200 rounds of the following:
Bullet: Hornady 55grain FMJ BT
Case: Once (a couple might have been twice) fired 5.7x28mm brass
Primer: Winchester Small Rifle
Powder: Ramshot TrueBlue 5.0grains
Case Length: 1.228in + or - .002in
OAL: 1.580in + or - .003in
Along with these he mentions that he possibility reload the case more then once, which leads to the possibility he may have been reloaded more then that.

During the discussion of MO and Tommy T the following was reported.

From another forum it has been brought out that the normal operation of the gun is in battery measured from fully forward position of the slide and barrel to .154 where the barrel and slide start to separate.

It was conceded the video's that were made were misleading and did not represent the function properly.

It was also noted that since the barrel does not lock there is a possibility that a hot round or debris added to the kaboom.

One thing that I feel is extremely important that was not addressed is the fact that the case had been resized once or twice and was in a weakened state adding to the kaboom.
When the gun is fired the barrel and the slide move as one unit to the rear to .154 thus having a in battery status. What is not commonly known is that this gun is not a lock breach so timing become very important and the position of where the slide is in when fired.
Thus having debris or resizing of the round stopping the full chambering to include ammunition with a greater pressure to no longer be in the correct timing sequence of the barrel and slide movement and the pressures being exhausted.

A few things that keeps being over looked is:

  • Brass hardens when worked

    If you must trim the brass everytime after resizing, where does that material come from ? The Walls of the Case?

    Using a hand held press is not strong enough or rigid enough to consistently return the material back to set size.

    This is an extremely sensitive caliber, please adhere closely to indicated loads and COL guidelines.

    The true blue does not have loading data for the bullet you used http://www.ramshot.com/powders/ and the weights are from 35-45 grains, even changing 5 grains has an effect on pressures.

    Ignoring the Special Notes on only using FLAT BASE BULLETS (especially in the Handgun) and you are using a boat tail.

Thus this appears to be a very good handgun when used within guidelines of the manufacture.

As with any failure there is usually more then one thing at fault, that is if you want to look for them.
 

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I agree that there is a myriad of what if's concerning this specific KB.

This firearm was not designed to fire a projectile in the 55g area (at least not the pistol). While a 5.0 grain load on a 55g projectile provides about 42K PSI of pressure it is well below the operating pressures of the barrels which is around 50K PSI, proofed to a much higher PSI than I care to list here.

I tend to think that it was the use of a heavy projectile that caused a timing problem which resulted in the KB in the first place. You know what they say, timing is everything. That is not necessarily a reload problem per say but more a bad choice in projectiles.

I believe the reason that Ramshot does not publish any 55g data (besides the obvious KB reason) is that the data that they have may have come from someone else and there are copyright issues that are being looked at - according to a member on another forum. You can call Ramshot directly and they will give load data for a 55g projectile but it will come with all sorts of warnings.

Personally, I would recommend that if anyone wants to use a 55g projectile, they should keep it sub-sonic and in the PS90 or SBR only and not the handgun.

In any event, the best projectile for this firearm is the 28g to 40g arena as this class of firearm was meant to fire a light projectile at high velocity.

Trust me when I say that I was extremely cautious when I fired any 55g projectile out of my FsN and each time I did it, it was one round loaded at a time and only after I examined the FsN before each firing of that size round. It took me about a week to just get the 55g rounds loaded because I wanted them all within .1g of each other.

My FsN will NEVER see a projectile larger than 45g in it again.

Unfortunately, there are so many things that can go wrong with reloading, especially with this round, that it could turn out to be a nightmare very easily.

I do hope that FNH does discover the problem (be it a reload or machanical or design problem) and let the public know ASAP as this has the potential to happen to more people in the future.
 

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HK SD9 Tactical,

You are right, the OOB will ultimately resolve itself. But you also previously stated that this was not a reloading problem, Then you state it was just the wrong choice of bullet weights. I’m sorry sir, but in my book, that directly makes it a reloading problem.

However:

First of all, if this had been an OOB incident, the failed case would have appeared completely different.

Most autoloaders, (not all) have an AREA of the chamber that leaves the case completely unsupported. This unsupported area in the chamber facilitates the autoloading process. However, this unsupported area of the case, means the case ITSELF must withstand the pressures generated. Quite often, a reloader will notice a case that he is going to reload with a very noticeable bulge on one side. This means that while the case will resize, if the reloaded round happens to load into the chamber with this same weakened area situated over the unsupported area in the chamber, there is a strong possibility that the case will rupture, the gun will dismantle itself in your hand(s) and the grief begins. The case ruptures in many directions.

In the above instance, the unsupported part of the case can always be considered OOB.

For conversation, lets just pick the most glaring error that has caused so much concern to all of us. That is, the OP admitted that this case COULD have been reloaded once, possibly twice. If twice, that means it failed on the third firing. In reality, he admitted he didn’t know. A fatal error on this round. While I dearly love my two Lee Hand Presses, they are not designed to withstand the pressures required to set back the shoulder of a case by as much as .050". When attempting to do this, the press itself flexes considerably, and during the flexing, the ram and shell holder are no longer square with either the die or press body. Depending on the amount of flexing of the press, weakens the case head, let alone failing to reset the shoulder properly. Now, when the case is withdrawn from the die, the neck sizing pin may not enter the neck square, thereby resizing the neck incorrectly, or if it is square, undue pressure can easily be experienced by the case head, which is now out of square due to the flexing of the press on insertion. This press cannot resize a shouldered case with any degree of consistency that ALL reloaders I know, demand.

As a reloader myself, I would consider reloading this round, well within the recommended data. That means, for me, the case would ultimately be fired twice. And I would only do this, if the purchase of the dies and other components offered a savings. Otherwise, it is not worth the effort.

In my humble opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the FiveseveN. In reality, I have shot this CALIBER (not the round) for years. I load many of the same bullets in 22-250, which is a much hotter round. Although these rounds operate in a completely different system to the 5.7, it does not mean that through an error on my part, a self dismantling gun will not appear in my hands.

I’ve said this before. If one has not read, AND UNDERSTANDS the patents for the 5.7, they have no business reloading the round.

Interestingly enough, both the chamber and barrel of the 5.7 will easily support bullet weights considerably greater than 55gr as the rifling supports. The case is the problem here, and the data used for reloading a BT bullet.

Bottom line:
Reloads voids warrantees.
Reloads from outside venders voids warantees

Because reloads were used, regardless of origin, FNH was under no obligation to the OP. The mere fact the OP posted this all over the internet speaks volumes as to his, and possibly others intentions, is available for everyone to see, if they choose to look.

Rant off

Chris
 

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This firearm was not designed to fire a projectile in the 55g area (at least not the pistol).
yeah i dont know if youre supposed to use it in the fiveseven pistol but they do make the sb193 which is 55grain
 

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IIRC SB193 is also a low powder charge of 2 grain, designed for subsonic speeds, not high velocity with a powder charge of 5 grains.
 

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So, for someone who only uses the 197, what would be the possibility of this type of Kaboom happening, what percentage, roughly?

Reason why I ask is that reloaders will load a relatively small amount of bullets compared to FN, who will load thousands of 197 with no real means of inspecting each one.

So, for someone who is interested in purchasing the handgun, and who will probably only USE FN's ammo, what would be their concern?

*disclaimer* I own a USG handgun.
 

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Varniter: You bring up a valid points that are being looked at by FnH.

My statement about the 55g bullet as a poor choice of projectile for the FsN is meant only to say the at some point the choice of the 55g projectile may or may not have something to do with the KB; or even that the timing of events was caused by the selection of the projectile, or the myriad of events that could have happened. Thus as there are 55g projectiles (SB193) used in the handgun without incident it may very well be something totally different so I can not say that it was caused by reloading.

Yes reloading may have had something to do with it and maybe not. I tend to agree that it may have been a condition of the reloading, something defective with the brass, the powder charge, gremelins, an actual OOB, a failure of the metal, and all other sorts of things.

There has been much speculation on this but I will have to say that it has given me pause as to loading any type of 55g projectile into the FsN until this is resolved. My preference - but I will still use my FsN as my carry of choice with my own loads, just not with a 55g load as the only time I would ever use a 55g projectile is at the range for testing under very observant conditions.

I still prefer a projectile in the 40g to 45g arena. They seem to pack the most punch but you give up some velocity for it. It still has the most punch. My HK SD9 has a higher punch than the 55g load would ever give me in the FsN. Its just slower to get there. At the velocity and mass it gets there, it hits the target harder.

I would never use any type of hand loaders to reload this round though and you have to keep track of the times you use the brass AND the charge because that weakens the brass even further.

I think that each side will blame the other and FnH will give him a new gun to make the matter go away only because it would be cost efffective for them. The bad publicity on the forums has given people pause, and sales are sales - if they loose the sale of 1 PS90 due to the bad publicity, then its more than worth giving him a new firearm IF he is willing to accept that it was not FnHs fault.

Other than that, the FsN is still a good choice of handgun and I would still buy one if I was planning to before this came about.
 

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So, for someone who only uses the 197, what would be the possibility of this type of Kaboom happening, what percentage, roughly?

Reason why I ask is that reloaders will load a relatively small amount of bullets compared to FN, who will load thousands of 197 with no real means of inspecting each one.

So, for someone who is interested in purchasing the handgun, and who will probably only USE FN's ammo, what would be their concern?

*disclaimer* I own a USG handgun.
Not enough information out there. The handgun has been around for a long time. First the IOM (which is the model that went KB) then the USG. I do not know of any issues except this one incident concerning the handgun. Other say that they know of maybe 4 or so but that still is insufficient information because they concern various makes of the 5.7x28.
 
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