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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Shooting the other day made me realize I probably don't need a high quality optic. Is there a variable + rmr type reflex set up that can be had for less than an acog? Or by the time I got both would it be about the same?
 

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Cheapest without sacrificing too much in quality? Probably this: Primary Arms 1-6x with their ACSS 5.56/7.62 reticle on a Aero Precision Ultralight mount + Primary Arms reflex sight on their offset mount.

There are probably cheaper no name options all over the web and ebay. But, at least with PA you a warranty, customer service in Texas that actually responds and speaks English.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A price point would help a bit :)

Well I was dead set on an the TA11E ACOG, but I don't know when i'd be able to afford that. But after my horrible grouping I was left wondering wtf I could hit with a 3.5 anyway. So maybe a combo for long range magnified and something for close up for less than an ACOG? I don't want it to be garbage, so if it costs just as much or more for something ok i'll just stick with an ACOG. The prices of those aim points combined with something else looks like it was for exceed the price of just the ACOG.
 

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Then Weaver tactical 1-5x, Norden Performance 1-6x. Vortex Razor HD 1-6x. First two are FFP, the Vortex is SFP. Or, for better magnification, the new Burris XTR 11 1.5-8x, hybrid SFP and FFP.

Really no need for RMR with these. Illumination on, set to lowest magnification and shoot both eyes open like any red-dot.
 

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Might want to wait and see what the new Strike Eagle 1-6x scope from Vortex looks like, it should be out soon and for $350 the price looks right.
Strike Eagle is low end. Going from ACOG glass to it will be a leap. Like going from the ACOG to the Primary Arms 1-6x which is even lower in cost. Heck, the Vortex is probably coming from the same Chinese factory as the PA. Not saying they won't work, it'll be serviceable for the range. Just don't expect spectacular long range optical performance or durability.

First focal plane is very nice to have. If not on a shoe-string budget, I strongly recommend the Weaver Tactical, Norden and Burris. Otherwise, the PA or the SE will get the job done. The Vortex has a better warranty... 3 years vs. lifetime.
 

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Then Weaver tactical 1-5x, Norden Performance 1-6x. Vortex Viper HD 1-6x. First two are FFP, the Vortex is SFP. Or, for better magnification, the new Burris XTR 11 1.5-8x, hybrid SFP and FFP.

Really no need for RMR with these. Illumination on, set to lowest magnification and shoot both eyes open like any red-dot.
I am not aware of a Viper HD, perhaps the Razor?
 

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Another couple of options to consider, Vortex Viper PST 1-4 is a big bang for the $$ IMO. The Razor HD is definitely a better scope but will approach the price of the ACOG, the PST is about half that. SWFA SS 1-4 may also fit the bill. Both illuminated and can be used at 1X both eyes open.
 

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Shooting the other day made me realize I probably don't need a high quality optic. Is there a variable + rmr type reflex set up that can be had for less than an acog? Or by the time I got both would it be about the same?
Get a Leupold VR-X (or if you want to be "tactical" then VR-X Patrol) then get a mini-red dot like the Leupold Deltapoint Pro or a Trijicon RMR and mount it angled off to the side. The package should be around $1000. Or you can go with a Nikon M308 and Burris/J Point/similar mini-red dot and save even more.
 

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One scope that fits this category that got my attention at one point was the Norden Performance GRSC Combat Rifle Scope. Based on everything I saw, the scope they have at this point is a BDC scope that is "tuned" for 5.56 855 ammo, they have indicated that they intend to come out with a 7.62 flavor but I have not seen where they have announced yet. If I still had a 5.56 I would have picked one up to play with.

Norden Performance Home - Norden Performance

At one point you could get one of these for under $500, but they look like they have gone up a bit... wish I bought one when I could get it for $295 even though I did not have a 5.56.
 

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One scope that fits this category that got my attention at one point was the Norden Performance GRSC Combat Rifle Scope. Based on everything I saw, the scope they have at this point is a BDC scope that is "tuned" for 5.56 855 ammo, they have indicated that they intend to come out with a 7.62 flavor but I have not seen where they have announced yet. If I still had a 5.56 I would have picked one up to play with.

Norden Performance Home - Norden Performance

At one point you could get one of these for under $500, but they look like they have gone up a bit... wish I bought one when I could get it for $295 even though I did not have a 5.56.

I have the Norden. The 5.56 BDC works for 308 also. GRSC, the original inventor of the scope has a video showing this with a FAL on youtube.
 

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How do you like it?
I've not used it with the 17S yet, but soon. It was previously on my M1A scout. The glass is clear and the FFP reticle is easy and fast to use. Ed Verdugo, the inventor has several videos on it on youtube... search for GRSC. IIRC, it was manufactured by a Japanese optics company. Overall build is very rugged. I have just two minor complaints on it:

1) The turret dials are plastic. The M1A was never really designed for optics. With a scope mount, at times the ejected casing can come in contact with the mounted scope. While zero'ing the scope I had a freak accident where the spent casing got stuck between the charging handle and the windage dial. The hot casing melted and dug into the dial. So now I have a crescent shaped groove cut into my windage dial. This would not have happened if I had kept the metal turret cover on between adjustments. Just one of those things you take for granted and don't think about while shooting. This would definitely not happen on a LR/SR or 17s.

2) Being plastic, the dials feel a little mushy. There are positive clicks, but they definitely feel more mushy than the metal dials you'd find on more expensive scopes.

For being a 1-6x and first focal plane scope at the $1,000 mark, these misgivings are a little annoying but expected. If the Weaver Tactical was a 6x at max magnification, I would've gone that route... but I would miss the excellent reticle on the Norden. Primary Arms' ACSS reticle is very similar.

If I ever move on from the Norden, I'd be looking at the new Burris XTR II 1.5-8x. I feel like low magnification is a waste on a 308 rifle.

 

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RUN...dont walk to a Primary Arms ACSS scope! I'm serously contemplating dumping most of my 'spensive holographic and relex primadonas for these things. I think the etched glass reticle is amazing, the price point, even more amazing, the performance..spectacular. I hear the glass isnt as high quality as an Acog but in honesty, for all the optics I have, I've never had an Acog so dont know what I'm missing and dont feel like there are deficiencies with the Primary Arms ACSS scope that I can notice. I am constraint to shooting no further than 170 yards max.. unfortunately/fortunately I'm a suburban boy living on the edge of a major east coast city so no wide open public lands for me to reach out to...but within the constraints of my shooting environment..these things blow my mind.. Price/performance ratio definitely in the positive.
 

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The Primary Arms 4-14x44 mil dot scope is great too (you can get the ACSS reticle also). You can't beat $230 for a ffp scope with almost universally positive reviews. I'll be shooting with mine for the first time this weekend.
 
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