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Discussion Starter #1
Inserted by MP:

Siimple explanation and Simple fix of what is the problem is. It took me all of about 10 seconds :?


What the problem is:
The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot(by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones.

The Fix:
1.) It is real simple. I used a dremmel and just shaved off about 1/16 of an inch(guessing). SEE PHOTO #1
2.) I took my lower off my SCAR and tested them( You have to push the magazine follower down in order to test).
3.) if the bar lays flat, you have fixed it.(see Picture #4)

HINT:
I also tested all my other "metal" magazines and had to shave a few of them(including my FN mags)




FIXED MAG ON LEFT


FRONT VIEW OF THE RELEASE BAR HITTING THE UNFIXED MAG



WHAT THE UN-FIXED MAG DOES


WHAT THE CORRECTED MAG SHOULD LOOK LIKE(SEE HOW THE BAR LAYS FLAT AND DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH THE BOLT GROUP)














Hey folks,

Over in the "wear and tear" thread we were coming to the preliminary cinclusion that PMAGs are forcing teh bolt catch up and may be forcing the bolt carrier up a bit, causing the bolt locking lugs to suffer some wear with impact to the chamber locking area. I have noticed previously that unmodified PMAGs do not allow the bolt catch to go fully down when the magazine is seated and loaded. I noticed the problem at about 500 rounds and modified all my PMAGs as described below, Since then I have not noticed any additonal wear on the bolt catch. I wasn't aware of potential bolt lug damage before the "wear and tear" thread, so I don't know if the bolt lug peening has ceased, but on mine it is very minor (I can only detect it if I know where t look and shine a light to see the shiny bits), and the gun has had 500 rounds since them. I believe this mod resolved the problem, but we'll see. Hope these pics help those who, like me, just LOVE PMAGs. :)

This pic shows the OEM magazine seated. Note the proper fully down position of the bolt catch:


This next picture shows an unmodified PMAG seated (I removed the internals for clarity). Note how far the catch is forced up. It's not enough to hold the bolt open, just enough for the bolt carrier to rub along the top of it:


Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this:


Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). Note the different rear opening. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left.


Here's the area on the PMAG causing the problem:


The fix is relatively simple. Use a round file to remove a little bit of material from the spot highlighted above so that it looks like this:


A before and after comparison. You don't need to remove a lot of material. Keep the trigger housing (the lower) handy and as you remove material, seat the mag and see if its forcing the bolt catch up. When it no longer does, STOP, you're done.


Lastly, here's the modifed mag seated... no longer forcing the bolt catch up:


Hope that helps!
 

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Nice post with photos!!! :shock:
 

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Great info! Thanks for including the pics!
I have a bunch of Pmags and was worried when I read the "wear and tear" thread.
 

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Does anyone know if the Magpul E-mag solves these issues. It is specifically designed for NATO-STANAG spec recievers (Specifically like the SCAR). I was going to order some to test but was hoping to hear from anyone who has tried them.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
mpeltier said:
Does anyone know if the Magpul E-mag solves these issues. It is specifically designed for NATO-STANAG spec recievers (Specifically like the SCAR). I was going to order some to test but was hoping to hear from anyone who has tried them.
We need someone to post a pic of the rear of the magazine to know.

FWIW, the modded PMAGs seem to work just fine.
 

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This is about the clearest, most understandable post I've seen so far. Right now I have only one Pmag but have two others on order. I will take a look at all of them.

By the way, you should send your report, with pictures, to the Pmag manufacturer ASAP. In return, they should send you ten modified new mags!
 

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Wow, great post man. Looks like I'll be spending some time with the dremmel this evening. :) Hopefully that will resolve the bolt issue until I can get in touch with FN. The wear really is minimal and won't keep me from shooting the scar, I just don't want it becoming a problem later on.
 

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excellent illustration & articulation.
I'm more concerned about overall function than parts wear & was having a little difficulty "seeing" the issue as previously described.
 

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dzhitshard said:
I'm more concerned about overall function than parts wear & was having a little difficulty "seeing" the issue as previously described.
Dude,

The guy has a problem and wanted to share. If you have trouble "seeing" the issue, just ignore the post.

I guess you're having trouble "seeing" that FNF is more than just a forum for super elite, war fighting, target obliterating, ass kicking, laying waste to everything, guys like yourself.

FYI,

FNF has its share of guys who would make you look silly on a range, so a bit of cordial behavior would be in order, eh.

:D
 

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Thank you for a most informative post. It takes just seconds to modify each P-mag with a Dremel. I, too, have the exact same wear on the upper, bolt catch and bolt lugs. I've already modified all my P-mags, even the ones I only intend to use with my ARs and Sig 556. :shock: :p
 

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SgtStrykerUSMC43 said:
dzhitshard said:
I'm more concerned about overall function than parts wear & was having a little difficulty "seeing" the issue as previously described.
Dude,

The guy has a problem and wanted to share. If you have trouble "seeing" the issue, just ignore the post.

I guess you're having trouble "seeing" that FNF is more than just a forum for super elite, war fighting, target obliterating, ass kicking, laying waste to everything, guys like yourself.

FYI,

FNF has its share of guys who would make you look silly on a range, so a bit of cordial behavior would be in order, eh.

:D
Why don't you try minding your own business & quit stalking me through threads trying to sharp shoot & show how cool you are with your 9000 posts.
With all the industry people you know maybe you could make a call & have someone who can read translate my post for you. Then you may see I was telling him thanks for clearing up the same ambiguous, unclear comments from other threads other members thanked him for clearing up.
:-x

Cordial behavior, you may want to try it on yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
out of the way (these were first gen L5's)

LongRifle said:
Thank you for a most informative post. It takes just seconds to modify each P-mag with a Dremel. I, too, have the exact same wear on the upper, bolt catch and bolt lugs. I've already modified all my P-mags, even the ones I only intend to use with my ARs and Sig 556. :shock: :p
Thanks for your kind words! To let you know, I have run my modified PMAGs about 300 rounds each on my Colt 6921 and LWRCi M6A2, and they worked fine with both, though there's no reason I can see why this mod would be a problem in the first place. It seems to me that Magpul used this shape to best support the follower as it comes up to press the bolt catch up, but I've tried to push the follower out of the way, and cause a problem, but try as I might, I can't.

FYI: the Lancer L5 also has this problem, and can be modified to work, but because of the follower design, the follower can get pushed out of the way and fail to lock the bolt open. I only have a few L5's, but I've decide to put them in my "back-up mags" bag becuase I want all my mags to work with all my 5.56mm carbines.
 

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dzhitshard said:
SgtStrykerUSMC43 said:
dzhitshard said:
I'm more concerned about overall function than parts wear & was having a little difficulty "seeing" the issue as previously described.
Dude,

The guy has a problem and wanted to share. If you have trouble "seeing" the issue, just ignore the post.

I guess you're having trouble "seeing" that FNF is more than just a forum for super elite, war fighting, target obliterating, ass kicking, laying waste to everything, guys like yourself.

FYI,

FNF has its share of guys who would make you look silly on a range, so a bit of cordial behavior would be in order, eh.

:D
Why don't you try minding your own business & quit stalking me through threads trying to sharp shoot & show how cool you are with your 9000 posts.
With all the industry people you know maybe you could make a call & have someone who can read translate my post for you. Then you may see I was telling him thanks for clearing up the same ambiguous, unclear comments from other threads other members thanked him for clearing up.
:-x

Cordial behavior, you may want to try it on yourself.
My apologies. I understand that not everyone can understand an issue when it comes to the mechanics of a particular weapon.

Stalking? Don't give yourself that kind of credit, as I read most posts daily.

My post count has nothing to do with status. Most are attributed to helping members, with a small percentage going to just having a laugh with the guys. You should try it sometime.

I don't take life too seriously as nobody's out to get me and I don't have to sleep in a cave for shelter.

:D
 

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Re: out of the way (these were first gen L5's)

Strongbow said:
LongRifle said:
Thank you for a most informative post. It takes just seconds to modify each P-mag with a Dremel. I, too, have the exact same wear on the upper, bolt catch and bolt lugs. I've already modified all my P-mags, even the ones I only intend to use with my ARs and Sig 556. :shock: :p
Thanks for your kind words! To let you know, I have run my modified PMAGs about 300 rounds each on my Colt 6921 and LWRCi M6A2, and they worked fine with both, though there's no reason I can see why this mod would be a problem in the first place. It seems to me that Magpul used this shape to best support the follower as it comes up to press the bolt catch up, but I've tried to push the follower out of the way, and cause a problem, but try as I might, I can't.

FYI: the Lancer L5 also has this problem, and can be modified to work, but because of the follower design, the follower can get pushed out of the way and fail to lock the bolt open. I only have a few L5's, but I've decide to put them in my "back-up mags" bag becuase I want all my mags to work with all my 5.56mm carbines.
Funny you mentioned the Lancers. I just got done modding them, too, right before I saw your reply. They wouldn't lock in the lower at all before the mod. I never had any issues of any kind through about 600 rounds, but I'm glad you shared this not so minor fix. Thanks again. :)
 

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EMags do it too

Fantastic thread Strongbow!

EMags have the same problem on the SCAR.

Here are some pictures of an EMag compared to a PMag and an OEM mag.

EMag on the left, PMag on the right


PMag pushing the bolt catch up


EMag pushing the bolt catch up


OEM Mag functioning properly
 

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A word to the wise, perhaps. Something to consider, regardless.

FN only warrants function with its magazines. What you are experiencing, if correct, would be caused by using aftermarket products, as opposed to OEM. You may face a problem with FNH USA since the fault is not with the gun.

If that happens, you are going to need to talk with Magpul.

Or write a check for a repair bill.

I could be pleasantly surprised if FN covers this, but one might not want to get one's hopes up too high.

I hope I'm wrong, or if I'm right, that FNH USA covers this anyway...just saying...hope it works out for you.

I bought one E-mag just to try it -- never have -- now, never will....

Brownell's STANAGs for me....
 
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Clyde said:
A word to the wise, perhaps. Something to consider, regardless.

FN only warrants function with its magazines. What you are experiencing, if correct, would be caused by using aftermarket products, as opposed to OEM. You may face a problem with FNH USA since the fault is not with the gun.

If that happens, you are going to need to talk with Magpul.

Or write a check for a repair bill.

I could be pleasantly surprised if FN covers this, but one might not want to get one's hopes up too high.

I hope I'm wrong, or if I'm right, that FNH USA covers this anyway...just saying...hope it works out for you.

I bought one E-mag just to try it -- never have -- now, never will....

Brownell's STANAGs for me....
If you mod your P and E mags then there will be nothing that needs warranty repair.. lol

So what would they refuse to cover? the not-worn part? :confused:
 

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OK, I thought this was definatley worthy of a sticky!!

Let me ask some questions so I can add them to the original post.

1.) Will the problem be fixed by simply notching out the Pmags to match the FN mag?

2.) Are there any other concerns with these mags besides pushing the mag release up too far?
 
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