[devildoc]

Yeaaaaaa.

Part of me wonders if this wasn't just a stunt. What I mean is; Congress is at single digits in the approval rating arnea. I bet many older members are fearing that they may be unemployed after November. What if this was a gift to wallstreet to get one of those hundred million dollar jobs as a "consultant"? I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[dumapus]

I wouldn't put anything past congress or this administration at this point. I saw Pelosi just rail the current administration at the end of the debate on the house floor - she just couldnt let it lie.

Then a bunch of house repubs claim that it was Pelosi's last min tirade that change their vote - if a speech changes your vote against what you think is doing the right thing for the country

Lets see how many folks remember their party affiliation when we are all in the unemployment line.

 

[Texas Armadillo]

Ye, pelosi can't blame Bush enough. I saw her and barny frank yesterday and it made me sick. The both forget these facts, and the mainline media will NEVER call them on them.

 

[Texas Armadillo]

Republicans were quick to blame House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for the bill's failure, saying a pre-vote speech in which she criticized the Bush administration's handling of the economy had turned Republican votes against the bailout.

Yep she had to spout off a bunch of crap and look what happened. Maybe she wanted it to fail.

"When was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion?" Pelosi asked in a floor speech shortly before the vote. "It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush administration's failed economic policies — policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision and no discipline in the system."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,430021,00.html

 

[devildoc]

Now wait a minute. did ya'll want this thing to go through? I didn't. This was a bad deal any way you look at it. A vote for this bailout would be socialism. Big brother knows what is good for you stuff.

Part of the plan was this. If the guy across town bought a house that he could not afford and you bought a house within your means. The government will step in and he gets a cheaper interest rate than you do (at no cost) just to keep him paying the morgage. Sorry but I pay my morgage. I stayed within my means. People should not be paid for being dumb. Now if they wanted to increase dumbo's payments to 50 years loan, fine.

 

[Varmiter]

I look at this a bit differently.

This bailout was set up to buy bad paper, while leaving the good paper in the hands of the screw up institutions. Is it any wonder this bailout failed. A failure that I agree with.

If one has watched oil prices over the last few weeks, it has become rather apparent that, for now, oil prices are now directly related to this proposed bailout.

When it was decided that all should get together and hammer out a bailout, oil increased in price. Then when it seemed that it wasn’t going to happen, oil fell. Then McCain and Obama et al were going to sit down with Bush and hammer out something, oil increased. Then When McCain didn’t go for it, oil fell. Then when it was announced we will have an agreement tonight, oil increased again. Now today, with the failure of the bailout, oil fell once again, and is continuing to fall.

OPEC oil, speculator oil, as well as the housing debacle and along with pork barrel spending are all contributing factors. Interestingly enough, those crying loudest about losses on the market, are those that were in high risk/high return shares. Oops.....High risk??

My guess, with the continuing fall in oil, will stimulate a much healthier recovery in our economy. This whole process has/will be a cleansing of our society that certainly need cleansing. By our society, I include our politicians, many of which feel they are above society.

Chris

 

[dtheman]

I haven't noticed the oil prices that much (only have to fuel up once every week or two). That would be pretty interesting if it is the current market status that is causing the rise in oil prices.

Here's one idea:

If you know how hedge funds work and I'm wrong please correct me.

If the failing economy is keeping hedge funds from buying up commodities like oil, then prices will definitely drop. The hedge fund is like a huge middle man(made up of many rich guys who pool their money to get first "dibs" to buy up all the commodities in a given market) that buys up every bit of a commodity (oil) as possible and then sells it to turn a profit(higher price/ speculator oil). Hence Varmiter's observation that the "worse the market gets" the lower oil prices drop. All those hedge funds were probably involved in buying up mortgages as well, after the mortgages all started to turned up bad they weren't able to use their credit to in turn buy more commodities like oil. Since they can't buy the oil up, the prices aren't being artificially driven up.

If I'm right, Let Those Fukers Sink!

 

[imschur]

easy way to watch oil prices is with code from this site

http://oil-price.net/dashboard.php?lang=en

Theres code for embedding it in to websites and forums. Its neat to watch cuz its always being traded 24/7

 

[dumapus]

Oil prices are the indicator, not the lever. Oil prices decrease b/c speculators think a recession is around the corner and believe the result will be a decline in demand. The financial crisis is driving speculation down. The drop in oil prices is a result, and will not help the economy to any measurable degree.

I understand that a lot of you are against the bailout. But it is not a "bailout" as much as it is a rescue plan. Yes, it sucks. It is unfair and it is rewarding folks who bought houses way outside their means. It rescues banks that made risky loans as interest rates dropped and regulations were relaxed. No one likes it. Nationalizing the housing market is socialism.

However, what I think a lot of people either don't realize or haven't felt yet is the impact it is having on capital flow for business - big and small - to pay op cost, keep inventory, make payroll, etc. Companies today continually borrow money on revolving credit to pay for the raw materials, pay for manufacturing and transport, facility costs and (most importantly) make payroll. when the banks don't lend money and the credit markets freeze, companies - big and small - will start halting production and laying off workers. You can stand on principle but if money markets freeze up, unemployment will sky rocket. I had a meeting last week - we estimate we can meet our obligations for about 4 weeks, then .

I am a believer in the free market. I am a believer in small government. Those of you saying this is Socialism are right - it is. We can all sit around and congratulate ourselves for being true ideologs in the unemployment line.

There are a lot of things wrong with the bailout/rescue plan. It creates an artificial price point in the housing market when no one knows the true bottom. Although we should get a large portion of the return at some point, there are no guarantees. It does not address those folks who are being foreclosed on who can't make their house payments. It does nothing to eliminate the massive debt load most people are carrying. But to say you are against it for ideological reason is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[devildoc]

dumapus, I agree with much that you said. However I don't see where borrowing $700 billion from my kids will solve anything. Wallstreet has been a bunch of junkies. Time to sober up. Will the market slow? Yep. Sorry, no new IPod this year and if your hungery, try eating your foreign imports.

You can't borrow your way out of debt. Wallstreet buy's and sell's debt. At some point people have to understand that debt is not worth anything.

This "plan" is no different than a gambler doing the "double or nothing" with interest added to our kids even if we win. It fixes nothing. It all just voodoo economics.

 

[Texas Armadillo]

So the Senate added a bunch of pork to this "bill"?

It wasn't enough to have to pass this POS, they just had to add a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with this.

Par for the flippin course. The entire senate needs to be gutted and replaced.

 

[O'Neill]

I am starting to feel like Indiana Jones in the 1st movie ---- Surrounded by Nazis!

 

[imschur]

man If they were gonna add pork I wish they would funnel some to us directly. I need a new gun and my credit card is still stinging from my FS2000 purchase.

 

[ShipWreck]

man If they were gonna add pork I wish they would funnel some to us directly. I need a new gun and my credit card is still stinging from my FS2000 purchase.

See here:
http://fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=10521&highlight=

 

[tqtran]

man If they were gonna add pork I wish they would funnel some to us directly.

Go buy some "wooden arrows" and drink rum while you do :-D