FN Herstal Firearms banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,559 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Cops Ring Bell at 3 A.M. to Let Man Know Door's Unlocked

Friday, June 20, 2008



LAKEVILLE, Minn. — A Lakeville man says he feels violated after two local police officers woke him up at 3 a.m. Thursday to tell him his door was unlocked.

"I was violated, but ... I wasn't physically damaged," Troy Molde told the St. Paul Pioneer Press about what he considers an invasion of privacy at his home in this Minneapolis suburb.

The officers’ surprise visit was part of a public service campaign to remind residents to secure their homes to prevent thefts. Usually, officers just left notices on doors, but they went further in Molde's case.

With four children under 7 having a sleep over in the house, police went into the home and up to Molde's bedroom and started knocking on the wall to wake him up.

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

Molde said he immediately thought something was wrong. "I was just dazed," he said. "It's not a safe way of (police) protection."

Lakeville Police Sgt. Jim Puncochar said the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks were not answered, so they went inside to check if anything was wrong.

He said the kids inside — Molde's two sons and two nephews — were afraid to wake Molde, so the officers went upstairs themselves. "It really was suspicious," Puncochar said.

Puncochar said officers left pamphlets Thursday at eight other houses as a reminder of ways residents can avoid becoming crime victims. "We went there to determine that everyone was safe," Puncochar said.

Police say many crimes originate with open garage doors. In May, a 52-year-old Burnsville man was stabbed and left to die in his burning town house after two assailants entered his home at 4:30 a.m. by way of an open garage door.

Molde, 34, said he went upstairs to bed at midnight. He didn't shut the garage door, and he said he remembered leaving the doors to his house unlocked, but closed. The children fell asleep watching television.

Three hours later, police were in his bedroom to give him a reminder he won't soon forget. "I haven't figured out what I should do with it yet," Molde said.

Lakeville is about 25 miles south of downtown Minneapolis.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,369540,00.html
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
thats pretty irresponsible
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
+1, from the way it sounds he appears to be an abusive drunk. i.e. the kids were afraid to wake him and it looks like he barely made it home from the bar.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,479 Posts
Irresponsible on both sides I would think.

"It's not a safe way of (police) protection."

Leaving your kids up in an unlocked house with the keys in your truck is okay though?

I think if the cops were concerned they should have knocked and yelled but not entered. NEVER should cops enter a house without plenty of announcement of their intentions. What if the guy would have been involved with his wife at the time? "Hunny, we have an audiance"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
I think the cops were probably more worried about walking in on a multiple homicide.

Part of the job is structural security checks and when the officer(s) see a situation like that in the middle of the night they have to check it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
"dtheman"
+1, from the way it sounds he appears to be an abusive drunk. i.e. the kids were afraid to wake him and it looks like he barely made it home from the bar.
Wow, that's quite an assumption. I didn't see the words "drunk" or "bar" or that he'd just gotten home anywhere in that article.

It'd kinda be like someone automatically assuming that if you own a gun, you are a criminal, but you know, people don't do that right?

Zhur
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
"The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar. "

"He said the kids inside — Molde's two sons and two nephews — were afraid to wake Molde, so the officers went upstairs themselves. "It really was suspicious," Puncochar said."

Actually it doesn't...it appeared to me that he barely made it home and the kids were scared to wake their father even when the police were there.

It could be the future cop in me that DOESN'T assume a gun owner is a criminal and looks at this situation and can see something is generally wrong. Sorry if I've offended you by not being P.C.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
Who's offended?
Who's being PC?
Not me.

If the guy was drunk, and the only adult there, they'd have probably hauled him off for child endangerment/neglect.

Garage door open- I've done that before after a long day of yard work and just plain forgot, no beer involved.

TV was on- Kids were having a sleepover and were watching TV and fell asleep, wow I hope teh kids weren't drunk

Keys in truck- Up until a few years ago, there wasn't a need to lock doors on cars or even homes around here. The article didn't mention if they felt the hood to see if it was warm.

Not wanting to wake daddy- I never liked waking my parents up let alone if there were cops in the house. Imagine what the kids were thinking "we must have done something wrong if the cops are here and they want us to wake daddy.. uhh ohhh"

Being a future cop, what would have happened had the man in question heard the rumblings and shot you in the chest a few times because he thought you were a burgler? The cops, were afterall, uninvited into his home. There were no signs of distress. There were no reported obvious problems encountered when they saw the children sleeping AFTER they entered without permission. Oh wait.. I've got an idea... how about having dispatch CALL the house before entering? Wow, there's that silly little box and someone stepped out of it and started thinking again.

I hate P.C. so much so that I wouldn't want a cop to automatically assume that if the doors open, there must have been a triple homicide in the building.

Assumptions are dangerous in both directions. My assumption would have been that someone entered my home without my permission, and that just ain't right! There were many more things they could have done besides enter the home. I think they stepped outside their scope of work.

Police have no duty to actually protect you from crime, only to deal with the after effects of it. When they start taking it upon themselves to enter homes without invitation....the fourth ammendment comes to mind.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It states that it's the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses... etc. It doesn't say that it's the right or duty of the police to ensure your right to be secure.

Now, that being said, was the guy stupid for leaving his home unsecure? Sure he was, but you can't police stupid, because if you try, that's where the whole PC problem comes in.

Zhur
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
You just cant fix stupid lol
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
i say that on a daily basis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,605 Posts
This brings up an interesting legal question, would the law have justified the man's self defense had he shot them for entering his home without his consent? A few months ago there was a break-in in an adjacent city to mine where the perpetrators were dressed as swat team members complete with fake badges. They entered the home and pointed a shot gun at the residents demanding money. The investigation concluded they were targeting drug dealers but got the wrong house in their little 'raid' by mistake.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
hmmm good question....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
the perpetrators were dressed as swat team members complete with fake badges
Maybe they were real cops. Cops got to supplement their income, don't cha know.

on the serious side the cops got no business entering a home without a warrent, period. Unless they see a Jeffery Dommer type hauling someone inside with a butcher knife, of course.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
devildoc said:
the perpetrators were dressed as swat team members complete with fake badges
Maybe they were real cops. Cops got to supplement their income, don't cha know.

on the serious side the cops got no business entering a home without a warrent, period. Unless they see a Jeffery Dommer type hauling someone inside with a butcher knife, of course.
agreed, i wouldnt be very happy if cops came into my house with out a reason
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
980 Posts
It really depends on where you live. I whole heartedly believe that there are many communities, rich and poor, where it is safe to leave your house and car unlocked. Leaving guns, liqueur, and valuables in public view is stupid. But locking up the defenseless children sounds like womanly paranoia to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
980 Posts
devildoc said:
the perpetrators were dressed as swat team members complete with fake badges
Maybe they were real cops. Cops got to supplement their income, don't cha know.

on the serious side the cops got no business entering a home without a warrent, period. Unless they see a Jeffery Dommer type hauling someone inside with a butcher knife, of course.
I remember hearing about the SWAT guys who did that.

You know, "The open door." somehow makes police entry without warrant legal.

I suspect they opened the door.- A little too zealous.- Anyone who knocks on my wall at 3 am is going to be blinded, tazed, and or shot. - And that's just by the kids on the first floor!! :D :D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
lol....maybe fresh cops anxious about doing their job...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
I think NEW cops should be forced to watch reruns of "Andy Griffen".

The lack of brain power by many in law enforcement is staggering. There is a common sence test that needs to be applied to situations. Ok, if I enter this house without a warrent at 3AM and startle the owner that is SLEEPING he or she might shoot me to let him know that he left his door unlock, or send the kid upstairs to get their parent. I know, they said they didn't want to wake him, but they are kids and they have to lisson to adults in my book. So get your young asses upstairs, wake him, and do it NOW.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top