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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here's a concern of mine and it may only apply to Florida. In Florida you do have to take a Gun Safety Course unless you can provide documentation of previous firearms training. The course is usually four (4) hours and most of the conversation is on the instructors prior experiences and some talk about the laws. I personally have not taken the course since Uncle Sam provided me the necessary documentation (DD214) although I do know many who have. I also shoot every weekend at an LGS and what I see is frightening. Many shooters, too many in fact have absolutely no clue about the basics many of them are new CWP recipients which is even scarier IMHO.

I might get flamed for making such a suggestion but it seems to me there should be a standardized curriculum which mandates actual firearms training in at the very least the basics. It may make the CWP course four (4) hours longer but students should walk away knowing how to properly hold a pistol/revolver, it might even teach them how to put bullets on the paper. Merely having a Permit/License to carry concealed is beyond dangerous if not irresponsible if you have no inkling of how to shoot. More important, it might actually get you killed and I have a philosophical and ethical problem with that. The current situation is having me ponder the notion of becoming a CWP Instructor. What say other members?
 

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Based on what I see at the various ranges in the area, I have to agree with your basic premise. Having said that, training could easily become yet another backdoor way to keep law abiding citizens from getting permits, especially in states, like Kolorado, that have become People's Republics...
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I can understand your concern however here at least (Florida) you do have to take the course unless as described in my OP, I would think it should only add a few more hours and shouldn't add much to the cost generally speaking it's currently around $75. Students would leave with an understanding of the laws and the basics of shooting thus making for a more enjoyable time at the range should they actually commit to practicing. I just think it's irresponsible not to teach the basics all the while assuming each student has a clue. I cannot see a reason to increase the State application fee only the Safety Course fee but you would be getting more for your dollar.



Having said that, training could easily become yet another backdoor way to keep law abiding citizens from getting permits
 

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Based on what I see at the various ranges in the area, I have to agree with your basic premise. Having said that, training could easily become yet another backdoor way to keep law abiding citizens from getting permits, especially in states, like Kolorado, that have become People's Republics...
Agree and it's really a shame, however that is exactly what has happened. I live on in South Carolina on the Georgia border. Because Georgia does not require training, SC does not recognize their CWPs. Georgia returns the 'favor' so it's a problem for those of us that cross the border both ways. Georgia is considering a change in their requirements, but I would really prefer SC changed to the Georgia standard.

In an ideal world, gun safety would be taught in school. Even kids from 'no firearms' families are sooner or later going to encounter a firearm. Better they know about guns and how to handle them safely than to do something stupid.
 

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I personally appreciate the minimum mandatory training that is required for CCW's (When I first got mine in Utah it was required as well as qualification with the types (ie Semi-auto and/or revolver) that you planned on carrying concealed. Utah currently does not require "range qualification" but class room safety is part of the required training. As such a few states ended up dropping Utah since they did not require range qualification as well. I know a lot of people get their CCW permits just so they have them as they do not normally carry but all of the people I personally know that have a permit and actually carry on a "regular basis" actually do get additional training/practice on a continual basis which I think is great but I do oppose on principle the idea making it a requirement as the anti's will try and use that as a way to limit who can and can't get a permit (ie make qualification requirements so hard to meet).
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I'm only suggesting basics, not range qualifications, basics can be taught in a classroom leaving it up to the student/CWP carrier to continue their own education and training. When you see folks shoot the roof/walls, drop expensive weapons off the lane bench, turn around and point loaded/unloaded weapons at you, it comes to mind, they haven't a clue and now they're armed.
 

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Delaware is a 10 hour course and qualifying with an instructor, at least the course I took.I would prefer to see more effort put into attracting people to practice more on the range. Anything mandated only leads to increased restrictions. This is something local gun communities should take on themselves as opposed to bureaucrats mocking it up.
 
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At a couple of our local indoor ranges when I see people who you can tell are new to firearms, I usually try and strike up a conversation thus allowing me to offer some additional safety tips and or shooting tips in a non-confrontational way and so far probably 80% or better have been receptive and of those the vast majority have been appreciative.
 

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Part of being a responsible gun owner is ensuring we are not an inadvertent danger to ourselves and others. Along those lines, we should also be helping those that may not be as proficient as they need to be (kudos to SeaMac for stepping up in this area) without being overly judgmental on their lack of skill.

I've seen more than a few people ignoring blatant safety issues in others because they don't want to get involved, when all that's going on is someone is out trying to get better. Granted, there are some people that will never learn, but the majority of people just need a small nudge in the right direction and a lot of practice. This is especially true in this day and age where more people are arming themselves that have never had their dad or other family member take the time to teach them.

Didn't mean to sound preachy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I look at it this way, the Shooting Sports is currently one of the fastest growing industries in the country as with any fast growing sport/industry you have growing pains. The difference in the pains is, getting shot by accident or inadvertently shooting someone else is a pain no one should suffer. From what I have witnessed a vast majority of new shooters seem to mimic that which is portrayed on TV if they're mimicking anything at all. We let these same people spend four hours in a classroom teaching them everything BUT basic shooting fundamentals then issue them a CC permit, I think that's wrong. The more I think about it the more likely it is that I'll obtain my State CWP Instructors Certificate and teach more than the law and gun safety. I am constantly trying to get people interested in shooting and recently have been very successful at just that, I feel obligated to provide as much information as possible to keep them safe, informed, confident and competent. I like to teach, it is very rewarding for me, more so when I see the look on a friends face when they start shooting very well.

My family has some influence in Tallahassee, perhaps I should test the waters and see if I can get the CWP course requirements amended to include basic shooting fundamentals without specific range qualifications. To me it's worth it as I want this industry to grow leaving little room for the Anti's to piss and moan.
 

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These courses serve no other purpose than to place one more obstacle in the way of those wanting a permit. Its requirement is nothing more or less.

Those who wrote these laws did so, placing as many individual requirements as they could, thereby increasing the total cost of the permit, in time and money, in hopes fewer and fewer would go thru the motions and get a permit.

TN is a prime example.

Permit cost to the state is $115 paid at time of application.

Training class between $60 and $100 depending on where you take it. Costs go up if, like me you had to take a day off from work to take the class.

Application submitted in person via the DMV, money paid. Then you get a receipt and instructions where to go get fingerprinted. Location is always off sight.

At the fingerprint location would give them a confirmation number and have prints taken.

Then the wait begins.
 

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At a couple of our local indoor ranges when I see people who you can tell are new to firearms, I usually try and strike up a conversation thus allowing me to offer some additional safety tips and or shooting tips in a non-confrontational way and so far probably 80% or better have been receptive and of those the vast majority have been appreciative.
This had been my experience at a local public range. Always clam and respectful, I do not hesitate to speak up, especially of someone muzzles someone or handles a firearm while others are out checking targets. Our local indoor commercial range started requiring everyone to view a brief video on range safety basics before allowing them to use the range.

I never minded shooting at rangers with a strict range officer. Even the best make mistakes, we should all be looking out for one another when shooting.
 

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Part of being a responsible gun owner is ensuring we are not an inadvertent danger to ourselves and others. Along those lines, we should also be helping those that may not be as proficient as they need to be (kudos to SeaMac for stepping up in this area) without being overly judgmental on their lack of skill.

I've seen more than a few people ignoring blatant safety issues in others because they don't want to get involved, when all that's going on is someone is out trying to get better. Granted, there are some people that will never learn, but the majority of people just need a small nudge in the right direction and a lot of practice. This is especially true in this day and age where more people are arming themselves that have never had their dad or other family member take the time to teach them.

Didn't mean to sound preachy.
You bring up a excellent point about dads, (see my underline). Almost thirty years ago I had more than one boy in a Webelos Cub Scout den that had never driven a nail or knew what sandpaper was for let alone how it was used. Broken families and apartment living.
 

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You bring up a excellent point about dads, (see my underline). Almost thirty years ago I had more than one boy in a Webelos Cub Scout den that had never driven a nail or knew what sandpaper was for let alone how it was used. Broken families and apartment living.
30 years ago?!? Holy crap... If it was that bad then, I'm no longer that surprised at how few of the young guys I currently work with actually know how to do things involving hand tools and fire arms.
 

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30 years ago?!? Holy crap... If it was that bad then, I'm no longer that surprised at how few of the young guys I currently work with actually know how to do things involving hand tools and fire arms.
Yes, and it was in a small town in South Texas.
 
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