eForm 1 denial

1186 Views 21 Replies 7 Participants Last post by cdiamond, 13 d ago

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

I recently submitted an eForm 1 under the new ruling for an AR pistol to be an SBR. I am registering it under an LLC. My form was DISAPPROVED due to missing a corporate document. I know I can resubmit by May 30. Does anyone know, do I have to do the entire process over? Is there anyone at the ATF that I can just send the missing document to directly? What about finger print cards, will they need to be resubmitted as well? I have done a fairly exhaustive internet search and have not been able to find the answer. I have sent two emails through "ask the experts" and have not had a response in over a week. I also sent a direct email to ATF. Any knowledgeable advise would be appreciated. Please feel free to respond here or PM me. Thanks

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kilyung

· #2 · 2 mo ago

Two options:

1) See if you can Google the examiners email address at the ATF and send a nice email with your missing attachment. If they’re in a good mood, they’ll process it.

2) Resubmit a new application immediately with all the proper attachments and email the examiner with the control number for the rejected application and the new application. Shouldn’t have to resend prints. You’ll have to pay for the new application but should be refunded for the rejected application.

Reactions: 1

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #3 · 2 mo ago

Appreciate the response 'kilyung' however no such luck on a Google search. The examiner appears to be Terry Whittington, anyone have his email address or other suggestion on how to find it. Thanks

Buffman

· #4 · 2 mo ago

You will have to completely re-file. I got denied because I uploaded a PDF that wasn't the right one, and they just make you re-file

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #5 · 2 mo ago

Thanks Buffman, what about the finger print cards? Are the originals still valid as long as I attach the original control number to the new application?

Buffman

· #6 · 2 mo ago

Nope you will have to re-send from what I remember.

Reactions: 1

srfnken

· #7 · 2 mo ago

If you submitted it under a trust it will get denied as there are no legal forms to legally put it under the trust as the 4473 governs the ownership. Your trust had to have it in the schedule A with a notary prior to the enactment date. That is how I understood all the legal people talking about it and that it may or may not work that way anyway. And now the ATF knows you are in possession of a SBR with no stamp.

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #8 · 2 mo ago

The disapproval did not make any mention of that. It’s under an LLC that already has NFA items and has been in existence 10+ years. I may have to disassemble them while I work through the process. I have a stamp for an SBR so my understanding is that would eliminate any jeopardy for constructive intent Frustrating part is there seems to be no clear or easy way to get an answer. I have sent multiple emails with no response and searched the web exhaustively.

kilyung

· #9 · 2 mo ago

Did a quick search and turned up (304) 616-4514 as a number for him back in 2016.

Reactions: 1

srfnken

· #10 · 2 mo ago

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #11 · 2 mo ago

This is a bit confusing. If I am not mistaken, a Form 1 is to "manufacture" an NFA weapon- thus a new gun. So how could anyone be in "prior possession" of this new gun and it not be considered an initial registration (at least in this configuration) I believe in the segment above he stated in the example given the gentlemen wanted to create a trust for the purpose of registering applicable weapons during the forbearance period. What if you had a legal entity established for some time that currently possessed other NFA items? There seems to be some confusion and alot of uncertainty even among experts. It just seems like things should be a bit more straight forward.

srfnken

· #12 · 2 mo ago

Others have also stated that if the schedule A of your trust did not have the item listed with schedule A being notarized your out of luck. As there is not proof that the trust held the item prior to the date of enactment like I stated in my post above. Does not matter that you already had a trust prior with other NFA items in the the trust. No notary on the schedule A no proof it was in the trust. Good luck and let us know how you fare with the ATF on this but looks like to me it will have to go the free route as an individual.

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #13 · 1 mo ago

So if you are completing a Form 1 to "manufacture a gun" how can prior possession even be an issue? The 4473 is not a form that the ATF is supposed to have archived copies of, only kept for the required time period by the selling FFL. So you could possible produce a bill of sale or receipt if you have kept them. What about a transaction from a private party? It is frustrating that there is no way to get a clear cut answer to these and related questions.

Milspec

· #14 · 1 mo ago

srfnken said:
Others have also stated that if the schedule A of your trust did not have the item listed with schedule A being notarized your out of luck. As there is not proof that the trust held the item prior to the date of enactment like I stated in my post above. Does not matter that you already had a trust prior with other NFA items in the the trust. No notary on the schedule A no proof it was in the trust. Good luck and let us know how you fare with the ATF on this but looks like to me it will have to go the free route as an individual.

The item does not have to be in the schedule A. It can be in the schedule B. Many trust form 1s under the brace rule have already been approved. Reddit has an approval/tracker page.

Reactions: 1

srfnken

· #15 · 1 mo ago

Actual Language:
"To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.
Can I register my "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to my trust pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F?
A trust may not register a “stabilizing brace” equipped firearm pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F unless the trust can establish through documentary evidence that the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.
Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of "stabilizing brace" equipped firearms that meet the definition of "rifle" and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person1 who possessed the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm prior to January 13, 2023.
Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust is the current possessor of the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm, and possessed it before January 13, 2023. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. Accordingly, for trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust before January 13, 2023. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.
How can a current possessor who is an individual register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust or other legal entity?
A "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm that is currently possessed by an individual after January 13, 2023 can only be registered to that individual pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F. Any individual possessing a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm in his or her individual capacity who wants to register the firearm to a trust or other legal entity must first register the firearm as an individual within the 120-day tax forbearance period, then submit a tax-paid ATF Form 4 transferring the firearm from the individual to the trust or other legal entity.
[1] For purposes of the NFA, the term "person" is defined as "an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation." 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(1).

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cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #16 · 1 mo ago

Again, a Form 1 is to manufacture a firearm. To be in possession of it (a constructed weapon or its aggregate components) prior to approval would not be permissible prior to any date. We shall see.

jeffbinder73

· #17 · 1 mo ago

I've seen a couple of places indicate that the date that the firearm had to be in the trust was based on publication of the rule in the Federal Register. This actually took place a few weeks after Jan 13th--January 31st. So the date the firearm had to be in the trust was January 31st instead (date the rule was actually published in the Federal Register).

cdiamond

Discussion Starter · #18 · 1 mo ago

Finally got a response from ATF- you will need to RESEND fingerprint cards with a second application following a notice of disapproval. Why this is the case, I have no idea. You attach the initial control number in the subsequent application and if you had prints that were not acceptable, you would like to think they would inform you at the time of disapproval. Very redundant and unnecessary.

Milspec

· #19 · 1 mo ago (Edited)

2 approved today!

Reactions: 1

gt3stuntman

· #20 · 1 mo ago

I did all of mine individual because my pistols aren’t owned by the trust because there was no reason for them to be prior to the ruling.

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