Or just use the polymer they use in their FiveSevens. I wont be buying anymore USA Made Fn handguns as They have all kinds of problems

 

Works fine here.

I suppose the people with cracked HK frames (lots on google) are probably bantering amongst themselves that they should be made more like FN.

 

You sure the drop free issue with your 45tac isn't caused by the release mechanism? I had this problem with mine and it was fixed after I took some excess material off the release nub. Here's the thread that kinda explains this: http://fnforum.net/forums/cerakote-...finishers/56309-fnx-45-tactical-magazine-drop-free-fix-diy-send-cif-repair.html

 

FNX Tactical is a great pistol, but shame on FN to use soft polymer which creates all kind of problems.
Mags not dropping free, mag release ......etc
They should learn from HK and use enforced polymer or just make metal frame.
FNH Belgium makes the best battle rifle ever made ( SCAR ). Why can't FN USA make FNX perfect ?
FN, please change FNX frame material .

I think you'll find, with a bit of research, that the basic "polymer" used is the same in the FN, Glock, Kahr, Ruger, S&W, Walther, and.... HK, as well as everyone else not mentioned, for that matter. Its a variant of Nylon 6,6 (ie, the same stuff Remington used in the "Nylon" 66 when DuPont owned them, and DuPont invented Nylon 6,6.....)

The magazine release problem is not a by product of any frame material issue.

And, I think you'll find that the process is more important than the material in our application. Of major concern is the elimination of moisture from the ground up (or pellet) material before its sent through the mold cavity. Nylon 6,6 aka Zytel, can absorb a fair amount of water, which effects its final molded shape (and shape and size in operation as well). Water within the material in the form of trapped vapor will greatly decrease the strength of the final product.

I will grant you that FN's production, in house or out sourced, may have an issue or two.

The kinds of issues might be totally part of the production environment, rather than a design issue (which includes materials). For example, the molder gets a shipment of material that has been subject to temperature variation with caused it to absorb humidity. Temperature and time for a normal dehumidification may be inadequate, and may not immediately show in the finished product. In production, you deal with real world issues outside the realm of more strict design features.

Hope that helps!

 

I was digging around the internet(s) as the subject of gun polymers has become of interest to me. What piqued my interest first was a review on the Tavor X95 and how the new gun uses a softer polymer as the regular Tavor uses a harder polymer. The harder polymer has shown cracks after use by the IDF.
"The old greenish polymer was studied to be rigid and impact resistant as much as possible. But with the frequent use during field testing, the main problem was that even if it was able to absorb hard shocks, the polymer was not able to last: after a while cracks in the body started to appear, compromising structural integrity of the weapon. The solution was to adopt another polymer, the current black gray looking one that was “softer” but did not show cracks after intensive use, being also more resistant to the strong UV middle-east sun radiations."
Link: IWI X95: A Bullpup For IDF Special Forces
Then I found some posts on someone mentioning how possibly Glock makes their polymers which I quote below:
"So what's the verdict: does polymer degrade over time or not?

Well, as an aerospace engineer, I work with metals embedded in polymers in all sorts of sophisticated, top-secret military applications. So, I am very well-qualified to answer this concern....

Yes, age alone will steadily de-polymerize the plastic in a GLOCK, until it is reduced to dust. The process is called "quantum-mechanical entropic decay," and it attacks all engineering materials that are more complex than single atoms.

Oxygen, especially ozone, viciously attacks the polymer frame of a GLOCK from the moment that it comes out of the mold. This damage can be retarded only by storing your GLOCKs in a "vacuum safe" -- a gun safe with a built-in high-efficiency vacuum pump that removes the air down to no more than 10.3 micro-millibars of atmospheric pressure.

(Try to shoot your GLOCKs only on indoor ranges that don't have much airflow, or better yet, on ranges without any air present at all. Your bullets will lose velocity more slowly on such air-less ranges as well.)

Metal embedded in polymer (the frame rails on your GLOCK) is constantly being attacked, deep in the frame where you can't see it, by "molecular acids" that form at the interface between the polymer and the metal. This hidden failure mode can cause the frame rails to tear out of the frame when you least expect it. You can tell how badly this is happening to your GLOCK by looking for it -- if you don't see anything, the hidden damage is getting very serious, and catastrophic failure is likely imminent.

Also, stray electrical currents are set up in your GLOCK by the contact between the electrically insulative polymer and the electrically conductive metal. This eats away at the metal parts of the GLOCK. This is the same micro-galvanic decay process that destroys your home's water heater -- but unlike water heater makers, GLOCK intentionally does not provide a replaceable sacrificial annode on his guns. Planned obsolescence by G2, don't you know....

All of these processes are constantly at work in your GLOCK, degrading it, and will destroy it totally in about, oh, say, 50,000,000 years -- give or take a few tens of thousands of years....

(In case the above is too subtle, I am kidding -- except about the 50,000,000 years part.

Yes, age and exposure to moisture, light, and air will slowly degrade the engineering polymers used in handguns, but not at a rate that is of any concern on human timescales.)
I'm not sure if you are kidding about being an aerospace engineer as well as the rest. If not, maybe you could answer the question I've had about how much heat the polymer in a Glock can withstand on a day after day basis. Say, from being left in a car that is in the sun in 110 - 120 degree heat. I haven't been able to find anything that tells me just how hot the interior of a car gets in those conditions...
Yes, I really am an aerospace engineer -- although I am not formally trained as a polymer specialist.

If you want a serious specific answer about effects of "temperature soaking" on GLOCK polymer, here it is -- I can't answer specifically about the exact polyamide that GLOCK uses, because it is proprietary and Gaston won't tell anyone exactly what it is.

But, I can answer generically, since I believe that GLOCK probably uses a proprietary varient of cast (not extruded) Nylon 6. This substance, which in its cast form is actually partially crystalline like a metal, can be manipulated to obtain a wide range of balance between such physical properties as "glass transition point" (G-sub-T), melting point, and max % of water absorbtion.

Since G2 himself is a polymer chemist, no doubt he manipulates his Nylon 6 variant (itself a varient of DuPont's proprietary Nylon 6,6 -- remember the Remington Nylon 66 rifle?) to achieve a balance of these properties that he feels is ideal for his firearms.

Ever notice the rock-hard yet still slightly "waxy" feel to the surface of a new GLOCK right out of the box? To a polymer chemist, that feel tells you that Gaston Glock really knows his polymers.

From the surface feel, I suspect that Gaston Glock probably found a way to push his GLOCK frame material well towards the polyphthalamide (PPA) point, thus reducing the tendency towards water absorbtion while still also elevating BOTH the melting point and the T-sub-G point.

Both yield-strength and the stiffness of the finished material are enhanced by this. This would be done by chemically manipulating the separation of the amide groups within the polymer, thus enhancing the final strength of the resulting hydrogen-bonding within the cast crystal matrix.

Now, back to your question: ordinary cast Nylon 6 melts at around 500 degrees F. Gaston's custom-blended meterial is probably more like a Nylon 4/6, or even close to a PPA, which means that it is stiffer and melts higher, around 550 degrees F or even more. (By the way if somebody is willing to melt their GLOCK and tell us the exact temp at which it melts, we will know more about it.)

So the temps inside your enclosed car (probably about 140 degrees F max inside in summer) will not come anywhere near melting your GLOCK. The bigger concern is that a prolonged "soak" in that temperature range would degrade the primers and powder in your onboard ammo.

Another variable with the effect of a 140 degree F heat soak on your GLOCK frame is the temperature at which the GLOCK factory molds are run. This would determine the degree of solid-state crystallization achieved upon curing, and the residual internal stresses left within the frame -- i.e., if there are a lot of internal stresses left over from casting, the gun might warp during a prolonged heat soak long before if melted.

But, we have to assume that Gaston, clever boy that he is, runs his molds at a fairly high temperature matched to his polymer blend, so as to achieve both sufficient solid-state crystallization and also some decent degree of stress-relief upon cooling of the cast frames.

See why not just everybody can make a polymer gun like GLOCK? Sort of gives you a newfound respect for our boy G2, no?

So after all of this, the short answer to your question is, your GLOCK will survive temps far beyond anything your ammo can, but you should not leave your ammo in a hot car for too long.

(By the way, never ever put your GLOCK in a dishwasher on the hot cycle. All polyamides, even PPAs, will absorb up to about 2 or 3 percent by weight of hot water, when heated above about 145 degrees F. So while the dishwasher water won't melt anything, it will permanently add water inside the polymer matrix between the polymer strands, which while it will not wreck it, is not especially good for it.)"

Bottom line is not all polymers are made equal!

 

Ever notice the rock-hard yet still slightly "waxy" feel to the surface of a new GLOCK right out of the box? To a polymer chemist, that feel tells you that Gaston Glock really knows his polymers.

Well.... no aero engineer here, but have 30+ years working sort of "parallel" to the injection molding trades. I always called that feel "release agent"!, but I have no specifics on Glock's (or anyone's process). I will say, that preparation of the ground or pellet material is part of the process where things matter like keeping certain dimensions held to close tolerance. We go through that all that time. And it always comes back to haunt us, because... there is very little control over the raw materials these days. I cannot mention what the part is, or the company, but... we have a certain few parts that are water immersed in their operation. Those parts are a major pain in the butt. We have to not only control the water inside the material before its send through the screws, but also need to control the process, and mold sizing so that the part is not made the size it should be, but becomes the size it ought to be, once its put into use and expands as its then infused with water. And you thought plastics were impermeable? Nada! There are also post molding operations that happen when, through necessary design, the part just will not mold right. In those cases, post molding work is performed. Again, on one of those wetted parts, we have to go back and iron the interior of the part, to increase the smoothness of the surface finish, and also to make the part round - it's ejected from the mold in a rather wavy-round condition due to the struts that are needed in the design. Where the material is thicker, you get greater deformation and lose you're round shape. So, the iron goes in and restores the round shape and also provides a super smooth finish to enable a better fluid seal by dual lipped piston ring (made of some sort of Buna rubber... not my thing to work with, sorry).

There's a whole lot to molding parts that need certain properties, that's all I'm really sayin!

 

The worst ever "Polymer" mags made by anybody were made by Glock especially the gen 1, seems about 40% broke at the feed lips as well as vertical cracks running down entire length of mag, took Glock many yrs. to fix.

Glock has probs currently with frames on their Gen 4 guns cracking mainly with .40 cal guns and on all of their gen guns there have also been issues with frames cracking, Glock quality has dropped since 2010!

 

No issues here with either one of my FNH USA pistols.

 

Only issue I ever encountered on either my FNX9 or FNX 45 tact was the interchangeable back straps coming loose. Barely noticeable to non existent on the 45 tact but pretty darn annoying on the FNX9. I ended up using a small drop of hot glue which completely remedied the issue. Still I am torn on what I believe in regards to manufacturer defects and what is acceptable (if anything) in today's day and time.

 

To anyone saying that all/most companies use the same polymer are plain wrong. I bend about 15 kydex holsters a week, 90% of them using real guns (not blue guns) and i can absolutley tell a difference in different manufacturers polymers by how they act when a little heat is aplied to them. Im an FN fanboi and i hate to say it but FNs guns are by far the guns i have had to mess with the most after making holsters. I have had problems with the fnx45, the fiveseven and an fns.

.02 believe it or not...

 

I am still researching however it seems when the European product is made in US the polymer issues arise prob due to poorer manufacturing standards. Ex US made Glocks and FNs made in US.

 

To anyone saying that all/most companies use the same polymer are plain wrong. I bend about 15 kydex holsters a week, 90% of them using real guns (not blue guns) and i can absolutley tell a difference in different manufacturers polymers by how they act when a little heat is aplied to them. Im an FN fanboi and i hate to say it but FNs guns are by far the guns i have had to mess with the most after making holsters. I have had problems with the fnx45, the fiveseven and an fns.

You may be correct about FNH (and FNX) weapons being different and potentially problematic, but only one response in this discussion has claimed that 90% of the polymer weapons are using basically the same polymers. Saying that they are "basically the same" can leave a lot of room for variations. I agree that many of them are noticeably different. The differences between the material in my Nylon 66 (which looks NIB) and my Glock 38 and my FNS-40s is quite obvious.

I'm sure many gunmakers also use "basically the same aluminum alloy" in their frames (SIG, Beretta, CZ, etc.), but the minor or subtle differences in the alloy mixes, while still basically the same, can profoundly affect how the frame holds up over time.

 

but I don't think anyone in this discussion has claimed that 90% of the polymer weapons are using basically the same

And you would be wrong....

I think you'll find, with a bit of research, that the basic "polymer" used is the same in the FN, Glock, Kahr, Ruger, S&W, Walther, and.... HK, as well as everyone else not mentioned, for that matter.

 

I think they have corrected the mag release problem and the back strap coming lose. Between my father-in-law and myself, we just purchased four FNX .45 Tact's and we haven't seen any issues with over 800 rounds through each of them.

 

And you would be wrong....

You're right -- I was wrong. One person made that claim.

I corrected my original comment after I read through the whole thing (message chain) a third time. You must have replied before or AS I made my correction -- which was done just a few minutes after my original response. Check the time marks. My update was posted at 9:38, and your post was at 9:40 -- we were probably both keying at the same time! :smile:

As I noted, the "same basic polymer" leaves a lot of room for minor variations that can have a dramatic effect on the result. That person mentioned the polymer used in the Nylon 66, and Glocks, and by implication, several other guns. I've got a Nylon 66 and several other polymer-framed guns (Glock 38, FNS-40, CZ P-07, S&W M&P Pro, and a Nylon 66), and they are all different in a lot of ways. Especially the Nylon 66 which is quite HARD to the touch -- they made parts of it look like WOOD, and unless you're touching it, it's hard to tell that it isn't wood. Different feel, to be sure.

 

This video doesnt give me any confidence in the FNX polymer

 

This video doesnt give me any confidence in the FNX polymer

[vid1eo=youtube;mdTsFB1ejo8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdTsFB1ejo8[/video]

He posted an update. Apparently it was an one off deal.

 

Does anyone else here have a FNX Tactical with such a soft grip?

There's been a lot of discussion of this particular video on other forums, but little feedback that would cause folks to think it's a common problem. Was this one FNX Tactical polymer frame that wasn't made right and missed the appropriate quality control checks?

And is there any reason to believe that the polymer used in other FNX guns is any different than the polymer used in the other FNH polymer-framed guns?

I don't know the answer to any of those questions -- but I've not seen anything that makes me think that the gun in the video is a typical FNX Tactical, either.

 

Yeah my FNX is pretty s**ty polymer. The mag has been literally eating away the magwell for a while. Guess Ill just wait for it to fall completely apart. I have also contacted FN multiple times about the issue with no response

 

Well....

Ruger, and Kahr don't have polymer issues. Well, actually Kahr did, but it was caught and corrected very quickly, and since then no issues. So whats so special about their stuff vs say... FN?

 

Ruger, and Kahr don't have polymer issues. Well, actually Kahr did, but it was caught and corrected very quickly, and since then no issues. So whats so special about their stuff vs say... FN?

Maybe nothing? It could be that FN, like Kahr, had a problem and caught it and corrected it very quickly.

Thus far, we haven't heard about a LOT of folks having problems with FN polymer.

I've seen one video -- on a number of different forums. That guy's gun was fixed and he issued a updated video. He seems like a happy user.

That one video got a lot of presentations. And there has been one guy here, recently, who says his mags are beating up his gun's grip. Those two example may indicate a problem -- but it may be an even-smaller problem than Kahr experienced. (That was a "Kahr" problem I never heard about, even though I've had a couple of polymer Kahrs over the past few years and participated in a Kahr forum.) I had a P9 and CM9, and really liked the P9 -- but got an offer I couldn't refuse.

 

i personally think people are looking for something to ***** about because they are bored or something. this one report is the only i have heard about with the polymer issue yet people are all worried about it. FNH took care of the problem. if you are having a problem with your gun, send it back. coming on a forum demand that FNH change their process which has produced millions of pistols with a very minute run of a defective model is just plain dumb and i can't really believe people are jumping on that band wagon. if you don't feel comfortable enough to trust your life with it, get another gun.

 

I don't think FN had a "problem" with the poly. I think that particular pistol had a problem. Maybe there were others, dunno.

As for all maladies leading to the "poor material" of the frame.... I make my living separating fact from lore, repeatable results (good or bad) from "conventional" wisdom, and rational understanding from emotional comparisons. When I see a problem in my daily work, question #1 is always "how many are doing this". From there investigations start....

 

I got my FNX Tactical back from FN, they changed the mag release.
Now the release work and mags drop free.

 

Mine works like warm butter. No issues at all.