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Hey! HEy!! HEY!!! Can't we all just get along?

I'm going to start a knitting thread next. The first one who starts sh!t in my knitting thread is going to find themselves knitting all alone in the corner. Do not make me place you in the corner to knit alone!

For the record all liberals attending the knitting thread will be required to knit snowflakes. All conservatives attending the knitting thread will be required to knit snow blowers. Yes, I know it appears I'm being unfair placing the more difficult task on conservatives. It is what it is.....MY damn knitting thread!!!
Funny how it is the right-wingers here who are so delicate and special that they can’t handle differing opinions...maybe you should make them knit snowflakes too, SeaMac!
 

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These trolls are NOT here to share knowledge with an open mind. This blessing of protecting their freedom of speech is valiant in an older context. We are at war with an evil and vengeful force that will destroy everything you have fought for. And you are letting them have a platform when they have no desire to listen to our side. They have not bled for our country. Most don’t pay taxes and those that have money, have manipulated the government to fund them. They seek to destroy our country and you allow it. You must change your conceptual framework for the good of this forum and see evil for what it is.
Brokegun, you may not agree with liberals beliefs, but they are no less American than you. You criticize “liberals” for not wanting to listen and then go on to argue how you shouldn’t have to listen to the other side. Liberals have bled for our country, same as people of all political beliefs. Most do pay taxes. Rich conservatives have manipulated the government just as much as rich liberals. Dehumanizing people with whom you disagree only leads to violence.
 

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Brokegun, you may not agree with liberals beliefs, but they are no less American than you. You criticize “liberals” for not wanting to listen and then go on to argue how you shouldn’t have to listen to the other side. Liberals have bled for our country, same as people of all political beliefs. Most do pay taxes. Rich conservatives have manipulated the government just as much as rich liberals. Dehumanizing people with whom you disagree only leads to violence.
There was no need for a response from you. I addressed what was directed to me, not you.

This (the response by you) is called trolling for arguments sake, a rules violation.
 

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There was no need for a response from you. I addressed what was directed to me, not you.

This (the response by you) is called trolling for arguments sake, a rules violation.
HK, I honestly do not understand why you consider this post “trolling for arguments sake”. Yes, the post I replied to was directed at you, but it was also posted openly in this thread. Should we not respond to any post addressed to you, even if it makes generalized arguments?

I was attempting to address claims that I considered false. I don’t “troll” people and I am not arguing just for the sake of argument. Could you please explain why you think this was “trolling”? Thank you!
 

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Brokegun, you may not agree with liberals beliefs, but they are no less American than you. You criticize “liberals” for not wanting to listen and then go on to argue how you shouldn’t have to listen to the other side. Liberals have bled for our country, same as people of all political beliefs. Most do pay taxes. Rich conservatives have manipulated the government just as much as rich liberals. Dehumanizing people with whom you disagree only leads to violence.

Nearly half of this country doesn't pay taxes, and those demographics vote democrat......
 

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Nearly half of this country doesn't pay taxes, and those demographics vote democrat......
Incorrect. Nearly half of the country doesn’t pay federal INCOME taxes. They still pay payroll taxes, sales taxes, and possibly state income tax. Of the estimated 44% (down from 47% when Mitt Romney made his famous quote) that do not pay federal income taxes, half are retirees living off of social security—a demographic that leans heavily Republican. Of the remaining half, those that earn less than $75k a year do skew Democratic, so as a whole, I’d guess it’s a bit of a wash. If you have information otherwise, I’d love to see it.

However, the states with the highest fraction of those who don’t pay federal income tax are concentrated in “red” states.
139424
 

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You are both incorrect on how the federal tax system works. But I can not explain in a few words what 7000 pages of laws and rules, that even CPAs don't understand, as to how convoluted the federal tax system works and the cut outs provided to all.

The simplest explanation is that if you make more than the poverty level, you pay taxes unless you qualify for these cut outs, commonly called refundable tax credits. However if you do not pay federal taxes, I'll be damned if I understand how you can be refunded anything that you did not pay. Cut outs go to ALL in the tax system.

Both major parties are responsible for this all the way down to local levels. And it is done to ensure (buy) votes.

This is why we are $29,000,000,000,000.00 in federal debt.

Balance budget amendment needed. We have one in FL and there is no red ink. We have no state income tax either.

Repeal the 16th.
 

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As a add on to the above, the "poverty level" threshold has nothing to do with the actual poverty level, it is a taxing threshhold.

The true poverty level in Palm Beach FL is much higher than the poverty level in Wounded Knee SD. So the Feds should call it what it is, the taxing threshold.
 

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You are both incorrect on how the federal tax system works. But I can not explain in a few words what 7000 pages of laws and rules, that even CPAs don't understand, as to how convoluted the federal tax system works and the cut outs provided to all.

The simplest explanation is that if you make more than the poverty level, you pay taxes unless you qualify for these cut outs, commonly called refundable tax credits. However if you do not pay federal taxes, I'll be damned if I understand how you can be refunded anything that you did not pay. Cut outs go to ALL in the tax system.

Both major parties are responsible for this all the way down to local levels. And it is done to ensure (buy) votes.

This is why we are $29,000,000,000,000.00 in federal debt.

Balance budget amendment needed. We have one in FL and there is no red ink. We have no state income tax either.

Repeal the 16th.
What did I say that is incorrect?
 

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Your map is based on 2008 non payer taxpayers who filed a tax return. It does not account for the millions that do not file a tax return nor does it account for the 11 million illegals, many of which do not pay taxes or file a return because they live in a cash based non reported status.

How about a link to the data instead of a picture of a map with no data to back it up?
 

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I wrote to the meaning of federal income tax, that is my weakness in writing. I know what I am trying to say and forget details for everyone else to get.

I used to be a tax preparer for individuals and would see what you put as an example HK. People get refunded while not paying anything.
 

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Between my X and I we had over 30 years experience with federal taxes.

I often had long discussions with preparers, CPAs, and others on the complexities and nonsense (stupidity) of most of the tax laws.

IMHO ours is one of the most FU systems in the history of the human race and every year the complexities increase so much so that only a committee of dedicated individuals can even begin to understand how the new laws impact the payers and non payers alike.

It is also one of the most unfair systems to the majority of individuals while coddling the corporations and the rich and poor, while placing the burden squarely on the backs of the disappearing middle class.

I think we would be better off with a VAT although that system has its flaws as well, but at least with a VAT, no one escapes. But I'm sure the pols would continue to make cut outs so they can buy their election votes at the expense of others.

I wait in terror on Bidens tax policies and how his biggest lie of no tax increase if you make under $400k a year will fall flat on its face. Maybe if you make under $40k a year.....
 

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Your map is based on 2008 non payer taxpayers who filed a tax return. It does not account for the millions that do not file a tax return nor does it account for the 11 million illegals, many of which do not pay taxes or file a return because they live in a cash based non reported status.

How about a link to the data instead of a picture of a map with no data to back it up?
So nothing of what I said was incorrect. Good. Glad we straightened that out!

undocumented immigrants actually pay billions of dollars in taxes, without being eligible for many, if not most, benefits.


As to the posting the data for the map, you can clearly see the tax policy center logo in the lower right and can look up the data yourself, if you wish. They have a map updated with 2010 tax data (it is very similar), but I couldn’t easily find something more recent.
 

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ILLEGALS suck billions of dollars out of the taxpayers yearly, especially in Sanctuary Cities. Amazing you can't understand the difference of a simple legal status. If you are in the country illegally, you are an ILLEGAL not undocumented. ILLEGALS cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year for housing, medical, food, confinment, legal, deportation fees, et al. Liberals are the only faction that uses the term "undocumented" to mean ILLEGALS. Just like liberals are the only faction to call semi automatic firearms "assault firearms" which they clearly are not. My semi auto deer rifle is no more an assault weapon than my semi auto AR15 is.

Your 2008 data does not reflect current tax information, so it is wrong. I'm glad we got that settled. Wow, a pretty logo. Funny how you choose their 2008 data to try to support a 2020 discussion.

And once again, for every site you link to in support of your position, I can link just as many that do not support this data.

You are wrong on the tax data.
You are wrong on the ILLEGAL status.
 

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Between my X and I we had over 30 years experience with federal taxes.

I often had long discussions with preparers, CPAs, and others on the complexities and nonsense (stupidity) of most of the tax laws.

IMHO ours is one of the most FU systems in the history of the human race and every year the complexities increase so much so that only a committee of dedicated individuals can even begin to understand how the new laws impact the payers and non payers alike.

It is also one of the most unfair systems to the majority of individuals while coddling the corporations and the rich and poor, while placing the burden squarely on the backs of the disappearing middle class.

I think we would be better off with a VAT although that system has its flaws as well, but at least with a VAT, no one escapes. But I'm sure the pols would continue to make cut outs so they can buy their election votes at the expense of others.

I wait in terror on Bidens tax policies and how his biggest lie of no tax increase if you make under $400k a year will fall flat on its face. Maybe if you make under $40k a year.....
ILLEGALS suck billions of dollars out of the taxpayers yearly, especially in Sanctuary Cities. Amazing you can't understand the difference of a simple legal status. If you are in the country illegally, you are an ILLEGAL not undocumented. ILLEGALS cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year for housing, medical, food, confinment, legal, deportation fees, et al. Liberals are the only faction that uses the term "undocumented" to mean ILLEGALS. Just like liberals are the only faction to call semi automatic firearms "assault firearms" which they clearly are not. My semi auto deer rifle is no more an assault weapon than my semi auto AR15 is.

Your 2008 data does not reflect current tax information, so it is wrong. I'm glad we got that settled. Wow, a pretty logo. Funny how you choose their 2008 data to try to support a 2020 discussion.

And once again, for every site you link to in support of your position, I can link just as many that do not support this data.

You are wrong on the tax data.
You are wrong on the ILLEGAL status.
Nope. Incorrect again, and you say it with such confidence. I don’t really feel like debating the point, since you’re unwilling to accept facts you disagree with. Good night!
 

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Wrong again.

Clearly your 2008 data is out of touch with the 2020 tax data.
Clearly, you don't know what you are talking about.

The difference between you and me is that you used an out of date data site with estimated tax data to support your position, and I actually used past years IRS tax data.

You are an Astromoner. I am a former employee of the Government that had access to the actual data and used that knowledge when responding to your incorrect post about payers and non payers from a latter year than 2008.

See ya.
 

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On another note, everyone who ever bought a gallon of gas, flew an an airplane, paid for a train ticket, paid for cruise, or paid for any other transportation related ticket, paid federal taxes. Just because you don't pay taxes via a federal tax return, does not mean you do not pay federal taxes. That information is not included in your support information.

You want to talk about federal communications taxes too?

Tax returns are not the sole source as to whether you pay federal taxes or not.....
 

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On another note, everyone who ever bought a gallon of gas, flew an an airplane, paid for a train ticket, paid for cruise, or paid for any other transportation related ticket, paid federal taxes. Just because you don't pay taxes via a federal tax return, does not mean you do not pay federal taxes. That information is not included in your support information.

You want to talk about federal communications taxes too?

Tax returns are not the sole source as to whether you pay federal taxes or not.....
And I never said tax returns were the sole source of individual federal taxes. You regularly extrapolate from what I actually say and then proceed to knock down a straw-man argument that I didn't actually put forward.

Of course, this kind of detailed information for 2020 hasn't been released by the IRS yet, but you claim to have special knowledge that more recent data do not support my thesis. That's certainly possible, but we have no means to verify your claim or not. We are left to "trust you" that you are correct. That's not how debates or science work. As a "government employee" (I'll note you did not say "contractor"), did you work for the IRS? Otherwise how would you have access to that kind of detailed, non-public tax information? Even so, you easily could have pointed to 2018 data that has been released to invalidate my claim that there are more tax filers owing zero income tax in red states than in blue states, but you did not. This makes me question your claim.
 
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