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Discussion Starter #1
Do we know when the trigger group safety sear was removed. Any Serial numbers out there with and/or without the sear safety?

Thanks

Frank
 

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My FS2000 has the safety sear. The serial number is 0064xx.

FNH-USA had no choice but to remove the safety sear due to a not-so-legal mod that were done by a couple of retards. Yes, those retards were caught doing that and they're now looking forward to a 10-year stay at Club Fed. Do NOT ask about how this mod was done. No such info will be given and such a mod will not be tolerated. The last thing we gun owners need is to give a reason for anti-gunners to further restrict our rights.
 

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mine has it serial# 0055xx
I didn't know they had done this. Has the part been omitted from just the new FS2000s or the PS90s as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I WAS JUST TOLD OF A 0068XX THAT DOES NOT HAVE IT.
SO, THAT'S BETWEEN 0066XX AND 0068XX.
 

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Yeah, Ive been watching this and mine does not have the sear.

Mods if it is not ok to post another link delete it and let me know.

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=217445&page=1

There talking about how the weapons are not as safe without the sear because of it fireing out of battery!? Any truth to this?

Well at least if it does go I can get a nice settlement and get that purdy DSA SA85 para Elite compact that ive been eyeing. That is IF Im able to collect it... :p
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Any other FS2000 between 66xx(with) and 68xx(without) with or with out the safety sear?

Thanks

PS: Trying to establish a serial number in relation to the safety sear
removal.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok guys. We almost have the serial number down to when the safety sear was removed. Somewhere between 66xx and 68xx.

Keep it coming!!!

Thanks
 

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fatcat said:
There talking about how the weapons are not as safe without the sear because of it fireing out of battery!? Any truth to this?
I think it was established by an FN employee in that thread that in the semi-auto guns, the forward (safety) sear doesn't really serve any purpose. The trigger pack has built-in features to prevent the rifle from firing out of battery. I can't check because ARFcom doesn't seem to be working for me right now.

If I recall correctly (and I may be wrong here), in semi, a different part ensures the hammer doesn't drop until the bolt engages into battery. In a full-auto gun, the forward sear is there because the safety that works in semi-mode is completely disengaged as to allow the hammer to drop reliably in a fast rate of fire. The forward safety then becomes necessary to prevent out-of-battery detonation in full-auto, only. It is purely vestigial in semi-only rifles, so FNH omitted it in later serials.

So you FS2K owners without the forward sear, you have nothing to worry about, safety-wise.

My rifle is a black model, #62xx, and it has the sear.
 

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thirsty said:
fatcat said:
T
If I recall correctly (and I may be wrong here), in semi, a different part ensures the hammer doesn't drop until the bolt engages into battery. ...

So you FS2K owners without the forward sear, you have nothing to worry about, safety-wise.
You are sorta wrong. Let me tell you about the parts involved with the release of the hammer.

In a semi-auto the "secondary sear" holds the hammer back after each shot, until the trigger is released, then the hammer slips of the secondary sear and the "main sear" holds the hammer until the trigger is pulled.

On an FS2K without a forward sear the secondary and main sears are the only parts controlling the release of the hammer. Unlike the forward sear these sears are not mechanically linked to the bolt in any way, so an out-of-battery release of the hammer IS possible.

Fortunately for those without the forward sear you can't pull the trigger fast enough to drop the hammer on the bolt as it's traveling into battery from the last shot. But if something jams the bolt open, or if the secondary sear fails, you could defiantly have a round going off out-of-battery.

I think a PS90 without a forward sear is more dangerous in this respect. In the FS2K the bolt mates into the barrel assembly, and this 1 inch sleeve would likely protect you from the heaviest piece of shrapnel- the bullet.

I don't exactly think that folks without the forward sear should be scared. For one, the bolt has to be mostly closed for the hammer to hit the firing pin. But 'mostly closed' is still out-of-battery, so you could definitely expect a serious jam or parts breaking. A weapon with its forward sear is not only a bit safer, it's also more reliable.
 

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The_Real_McCoy said:
My FS2000 has the safety sear. The serial number is 0064xx.

FNH-USA had no choice but to remove the safety sear due to a not-so-legal mod that were done by a couple of retards. Yes, those retards were caught doing that and they're now looking forward to a 10-year stay at Club Fed. Do NOT ask about how this mod was done. No such info will be given and such a mod will not be tolerated. The last thing we gun owners need is to give a reason for anti-gunners to further restrict our rights.

I referenced this on another forum and some jerk questioned it's veracity. Are there any cross references to document the story?..................DJ
 

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My FS2000 has the safety sear. The serial number is 0064xx.

FNH-USA had no choice but to remove the safety sear due to a not-so-legal mod that were done by a couple of retards. Yes, those retards were caught doing that and they're now looking forward to a 10-year stay at Club Fed. Do NOT ask about how this mod was done. No such info will be given and such a mod will not be tolerated. The last thing we gun owners need is to give a reason for anti-gunners to further restrict our rights.


I referenced this on another forum and some jerk questioned it's veracity. Are there any cross references to document the story?..................DJ
yes - I would be curious to see this info. as well...

ETA - why is someone a jerk when they "questioned it's veracity" of a bit of information that I think FN owners should be aware of... there are a million ways to get in trouble, shoe strings, paperclips, you-name-it....
 

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Heron, The "Jerk" description comes not from what he asked but how he asked it and other comments made. It's perfectly OK to question the veracity of stories but you can do it in a polite way or a Jerk way, he chose the Jerk way.
I think you know exactly the thread I'm referrring too..........................DJ
 

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If I recall correctly (and I may be wrong here), in semi, a different part ensures the hammer doesn't drop until the bolt engages into battery. ...

So you FS2K owners without the forward sear, you have nothing to worry about, safety-wise.
You are sorta wrong. Let me tell you about the parts involved with the release of the hammer.

In a semi-auto the "secondary sear" holds the hammer back after each shot, until the trigger is released, then the hammer slips of the secondary sear and the "main sear" holds the hammer until the trigger is pulled.

On an FS2K without a forward sear the secondary and main sears are the only parts controlling the release of the hammer. Unlike the forward sear these sears are not mechanically linked to the bolt in any way, so an out-of-battery release of the hammer IS possible.

Fortunately for those without the forward sear you can't pull the trigger fast enough to drop the hammer on the bolt as it's traveling into battery from the last shot. But if something jams the bolt open, or if the secondary sear fails, you could defiantly have a round going off out-of-battery.

I think a PS90 without a forward sear is more dangerous in this respect. In the FS2K the bolt mates into the barrel assembly, and this 1 inch sleeve would likely protect you from the heaviest piece of shrapnel- the bullet.

I don't exactly think that folks without the forward sear should be scared. For one, the bolt has to be mostly closed for the hammer to hit the firing pin. But 'mostly closed' is still out-of-battery, so you could definitely expect a serious jam or parts breaking. A weapon with its forward sear is not only a bit safer, it's also more reliable.[/quote]

Another thing to consider...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the extractor has to jump over the rim of the shell casing. It would seem that this isn't likely to happen until the bullet is seated into the chamber. If the bolt doesn't close completely, the extractor shouldn't jump over the case rim and would therefore create a gap in excess of the firing pin protrusion length. It seems technically unlikely, even without the safety sear that either a PS90 or FS2K would fire out of battery.
 

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You are sorta wrong. Let me tell you about the parts involved with the release of the hammer.

In a semi-auto the "secondary sear" holds the hammer back after each shot, until the trigger is released, then the hammer slips of the secondary sear and the "main sear" holds the hammer until the trigger is pulled.

On an FS2K without a forward sear the secondary and main sears are the only parts controlling the release of the hammer. Unlike the forward sear these sears are not mechanically linked to the bolt in any way, so an out-of-battery release of the hammer IS possible.

Fortunately for those without the forward sear you can't pull the trigger fast enough to drop the hammer on the bolt as it's traveling into battery from the last shot. But if something jams the bolt open, or if the secondary sear fails, you could defiantly have a round going off out-of-battery.

I think a PS90 without a forward sear is more dangerous in this respect. In the FS2K the bolt mates into the barrel assembly, and this 1 inch sleeve would likely protect you from the heaviest piece of shrapnel- the bullet.

I don't exactly think that folks without the forward sear should be scared. For one, the bolt has to be mostly closed for the hammer to hit the firing pin. But 'mostly closed' is still out-of-battery, so you could definitely expect a serious jam or parts breaking. A weapon with its forward sear is not only a bit safer, it's also more reliable.

:( DANG IT. I was just about ready to pick one of these rifles up too. But being the somewhat anal person I am, I start Googling and end up here and find this.
Besides being somewhat anal, I am also somewhat paranoid about possible problems an item I am contemplating might have. It has been my experiance with all things mechanical, if it "Can" happen, it "Will" happen to me. And now throw in a possible legal issue as well.

Ok, in order to, possibly, ease my mind, could someone look over a few hypathetical scenarios I have come up with and tell me the odds of them happening.

1.) I find and purchase an early version with the secondary sear. I am happy, but somewhere down the line, it is declared an illegal set up and at best I will be required to remove it, send in my trigger pack for modification, or worst case, recieve a demand to surrender it or even a "visit" to pick it up.

2.) I purchase a later rifle with said sear removed, and being the somewhat paranoid person, locate said sear, or find another less paranoid owner with a rifle that has the sear and swap trigger packs with him, thus restoring the rifle to its original design. Also possibly opening myself up to legal issues.

3.) I purchase a new rifle without said sear, ignore my previous experience with all things mechanical ( my own Murphys law, if it can happen, it will happen and it will happen to ME ) fire the rifle and have it fire out of battery, destroying my $2000 investment, even if not injuring me. What are the odds FN will cover this.

4.) I just save myself the stress, take my money and buy yet another high end AR-15.
 

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Ed-Ohio said:
1.) I find and purchase an early version with the secondary sear. I am happy, but somewhere down the line, it is declared an illegal set up and at best I will be required to remove it, send in my trigger pack for modification, or worst case, recieve a demand to surrender it or even a "visit" to pick it up.
Let's be clear, the problem is not the initial design. The problem is the modification to make it full auto. You should keep in mind many semi-auto long guns can be switched to a full auto configuration with some tinkering and additional parts. If it came to a point that the BATF was looking for the early trigger packs, they would probably be collecting other things as well.


Ed-Ohio said:
2.) I purchase a later rifle with said sear removed, and being the somewhat paranoid person, locate said sear, or find another less paranoid owner with a rifle that has the sear and swap trigger packs with him, thus restoring the rifle to its original design. Also possibly opening myself up to legal issues.
It is possible you might find someone who would swap. However, as long as you are not trying to obtain or install a prohibited part, I do not see where you will create a legal problem for yourself. The part FN removed is not the part that makes it go full auto, but it is one that you would want for the shooter's safety if he /she was firing on full auto.

Ed-Ohio said:
3.) I purchase a new rifle without said sear, ignore my previous experience with all things mechanical ( my own Murphys law, if it can happen, it will happen and it will happen to ME ) fire the rifle and have it fire out of battery, destroying my $2000 investment, even if not injuring me. What are the odds FN will cover this.
There are additional safety devices built into the gun to prevent an out of battery firing, but let's assume they all fail for the purpose of your question. FN like other top firearm companies normally would stand behind their product if their product self-destructs due to a construction defect. Think of it this way, as a business decision, it is cheaper for them to give you a new rifle than it is for them to respond to a lawsuit that has some merit and could be a source of bad PR for them.

Ed-Ohio said:
4.) I just save myself the stress, take my money and buy yet another high end AR-15.
That's just crazy talk.... :lol:
 

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4.) I just save myself the stress, take my money and buy yet another high end AR-15.
That's just crazy talk.... :lol:

:( You're right, I am being silly. I have enough AR-15s, I will buy an FS2000, a nice all black one with all the trimmings, it will be fine and not blow my face off at its first opportunity.........................any of you braver than I, "We don't need no stinkin safety sear!" types be interested in a swap? Just color me paranoid :oops:
 
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