[HK SD9 Tactical]

From www.atf.gov site:

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip. 8)

See here for others:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

Does this mean that we can have frank discussions about the SS109 now? :grin:

OK due to all the "We need to be careful, and I don't know, and it is ect ect..." I decided to go directly to the horse and get it from them.

This afternoon, I called the ATF Firearms Technology Branch in Virginia and spoke with Special Agent (duty agent - I have a name but will not release it for her/his safety, so I'll call the Special Agent BOO) Boo specifically about the SS109 bullet and its use in both the PS90 and the Five-seveN handgun. I re-itterated to SA Boo the news on the ATF website that the SS109 (M855) is no longer on the armor piercing list.

I informed SA Boo that I had both the PS90 and Five-seveN handgun and that I reloaded my own ammunition. My question to SA Boo was "If I reload a 5.7X22mm cartridge with a SS109 bullet, is it considered armor piercing if it is in either my PS90 or my Five-seveN handgun?"

Special Agent Boo's response was "armor piercing rounds are designated by the characteristics of the BULLET and not the CARTRIDGE therefore it is NOT an armor piercing round in either case."

As the bullet (SS109 M885) was designated by the ATF as NO LONGER ARMOR PIERCING, it can be loaded into any firearm (rifle or pistol) and not violate Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322
The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B)

I will be sending the ATF a request that this be put in writing and placed on their website as well as a written response to me so that I have an official copy of this on file.

I hope that this finally puts this debate of whether the SS109 is AP or not because according to the ATF, IT IS NOT.

WARNING: YOUR STATE LAW MY STILL CONSIDER THE SS109 AS AP!

 

[abpt1]

 

[Texas Armadillo]

When did this change take place? I didn't see a date on it.

TA

 

[Fick]

cool, I have read that SS109 fires real nice through an AR designed for 5.56mm

 

[Thermallator]

Nice post HK - I will re-open the SS109 threads 8)

PLEASE NOTE: The regulation states .223 caliber. I want to be clear on this subject here. ATF may consider 5.7 NOT THE SAME as .223 Remington.

The bullet diameter may not necessarily be the same as the cartridge itself in their perview. They do elude to the SS109 by name, however that may be bullet designation ONLY and not the cartridge itself.

Therefore, SS109 5.7 may be different in their nomencalture than an SS109 .223.

Someone please confirm or deny this.

Cheers,

-TH

 

[abpt1]

I agree it would be safe as long as no reference to all of the USG/IOM /Fiveseven handguns........ The PS-90 is designated a rifle that is fine and good but it would be unlawful to load/fire or intened to use any of these typs of ammo in a handgun...!

The ss109 is not the ss190 I dont think it matters only when it falls in to the handgun topic there both .224 dia steel core but this is a little gray since Its sale to civilians is restricted but the older ones fall into a Grandfather clause but like I said its gray...except the part of loading/carrying in a Handgun That is unlawful....

 

[Esteves]

User banned and ALL posts removed

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

When did this change take place? I didn't see a date on it.

TA

It's been that way since at least 1996. See http://www.titleii.com/BardwellOLD/ap_ammo.txt

I think that the ATF ruled on the SS109 soon after the law was revised.

I think that TA was referring to the 'change back date' and not the original 'change date'.

I do not know when the ATF removed the SS109 from the list of outlawed AP as there is no date posted with this update. I just happened to come across it while searching through the ATF's site about 'Record Fowarding' for defunct FFL's, searching for the storage facility so that I could locate some serial numbers of handguns that were stolen from me several years ago.

I had the serial numbers located in a strong box away from the weapons but that was taken also.

Death to gun theives and gun burglars, they deserve nothing less, as they are responsible for all measures of gun control laws that remove basic rights from law abiding citizens. :-x

 

[Orbital]

Re: ATF Removes SS109 from Armor Piercing Ammunition List

From www.atf.gov site:

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip. 8)

See here for others:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

Does this mean that we can have frank discussions about the SS109 now? :grin:

did you get this from my thread on arfcom? I couldn't think of the proper way to bring it up per the sticky after the thread was locked.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Re: ATF Removes SS109 from Armor Piercing Ammunition List

From www.atf.gov site:

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip. 8)

See here for others:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

Does this mean that we can have frank discussions about the SS109 now? :grin:

did you get this from my thread on arfcom? I couldn't think of the proper way to bring it up per the sticky after the thread was locked.

Nope, never been there. Got it directly from the ATF site.

 

[Thermallator]

OK - then for all purposes herein - SS190 5.7 ammunition is still classified as AP ammo. Therefore - caution advised here !!!!

-TH

 

[Esteves]

User banned and ALL posts removed

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

See my first post that I edited today!

 

[ShipWreck]

See my first post that I edited today!

Thanks for the update

 

[wildeye111]

Hey HK SD9 Tactical,
Very good job!!! Thanks for the help, I have been trying to inform our members of this info for many months now.

Please view the below link on the topic that was previously discussed regarding the use of the SS109-

http://fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=166&highlight=


Regards,
Wil

 

[Orbital]

does anyone have an idea of the weight of the jacket on the SS190 bullet?

It's not armor piercing because of the aluminum core: "tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium"

 

[grendelbane]

This is not new. This has been the situation for years.

The definition of AP is pretty straight forward, and has nothing to do with performance, and everything to do with construction.

There is a loop-hole. It is perfectly legal to manufacture a handgun bullet with a non-depleted uranium core! :roll:

I think I will pass, though. There are those who claim I have already suffered enough heavy metal damage.

 

[Small_Arms_Collector]

This is new? We've been getting M-855, and SS-109 (same thing except usually loaded lighter) for YEARS where have you been?