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Discussion Starter #1
I just plain suck with the iron sights on the scar. Even with a bipod I can't seem to hit anything easily.
It seems I can get close, but that's about it.


I have a ruger 10/22 takedown, and I am a lot more accurate with those iron sights for some reason. Those sights are more like pistol sights, than what is on the scar.

I am using the small hole on the irons.

Do I need to do something with the irons like zero them? I am shooting close range, like 50-100 yards. I leave the windage on what looks like "1" mark. and the elevation knob on 2.
 

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I can hit a steel target that is about 1ft squared pretty much all day at 100 yards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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With resting on a bipod, you should be able to group into a 4-5 inch pattern at 300 meters.
I've done it. Of course, your mileage may vary but the rifle is certainly capable.

With my eyesight, that was a bit of a stretch (I'm 64).

The iron sights on the SCAR are actually quite good.
 

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More info please. If you are on but just erratic you may be flinching without even knowing about it. If so, there are some ways to detect that shooting error. The irons are actually very good. Oh and is the ammo worth the group you are after?
 

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I'm not in the same camp - I think the iron sights suck. They are emergency back up sights only, not meant for serious shooting.

In order to get any sort of accuracy, the iron sights can't move around due to recoil. The movement of the impact point to versus the distance a sight moves is a straight ratio of sight radius to shot distance. 100 yards is 3600 inches, sight radius is 20 inches, so there is a 180 to 1 ratio, call it a 200 to 1 ratio to make the math easy ... in other words, a 2" movement of the impact at 100 yards is the result of a 0.01" movement of the sights. That's about 2/3 of a 1/64 mark on your tape measure, in case you can't visualize decimals. In other words, the sights don't have to jump around much due to recoil before your accuracy sucks.

Now, after you take your front sight up, grab it and wriggle it to see how steady it locks into place. I have not put a dial indicator on mine, but I can tell you is will wiggle back and forth WAY more than 1/64". The rear sight is not as bad, but it's not rock solid either.

We had a postal shoot here last year, and I shot my SCAR16 in the irons class. I could not keep them all on an 8x11 paper at 100 yards, until I got a bunch of bungee cords and wrapped them around the sights, so they were held firmly against the stops in the sight mechanism. Once I did that, there was a marked improvement is the size of my shot groups (of course I looked stupid with elastic all over my rifle, but function trumps fashion), but at least it kept the sights from wandering from place to place as a result of the recoil.

That said, if you are just telling us what settings you are using, it means you have not sighted your rifle in. I think the factory does a decent job of assembling the rifles, but I really doubt they actually sight them in when they are new, that is an exercise left to the shooter. There might be an actual procedure in the book, but basically, you want to get a large piece of paper, like 24x36, put a black dot on it (maybe spray paint a pie plate black), and take 5 shots. Eyeball where the center of those 5 is, and then move the front sight to correct where the shot group falls. You can screw your front sight post in/out to raise/lower your groups, and you can screw the screws on the sides of the front sight in/out to slide the front sight left/right. I think the elevation is probably similar to an AR, that is 5MOA per revolution (1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards, or 0.25" at 25 yards). I don't recall the scale for side-side. So basically, if this is a new rifle, I would expect that you need to go through this exercise when the rifle is new, in order to set the sights up. After that, you should be able to correspond the settings on the rear sight to distance, and be reasonably on target.

Also, if you are 64, I have run through the optical math to calculate the hyperfocal distance on a SCAR, and to calculate the corect lens to restore your eye's ability to focus at the right spot, and for the SCAR, you need a +1.00 diopter lens. This is a little weaker than most reading glasses. Reading glasses typically start at +1.25, but I think I can source +1.00 safety glasses. - I'll know in a couple of weeks.

If you wear glasses for distance vision, ask the doc to write you a prescription for shooting lenses that have a +1.00 added to your prescription. Get PC lenses, as these are impact resistant.
 

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i shoot my 16 with irons. i have hit an auto resetting target like this one at 100 of hand 80-85% of the time at 100. it is 2 inches across with the fattest part being 4 inches.

i can hit it 100% of the time off my bipod out to 180 or so.

i shoot 3 gun with it. my rifle likes 300 yards. i can hit most of the 3 gun steel out at 300. 375 is about MY limit, for regular hits.

i shoot 55 grain projectiles.......:th_faint:

i just got a rail extension and i plan to put a bolt on front sight out at the end of the rail with a KNS .034 post in it. that should get me a bit more distance between sights and a smaller post to aim off of. in competition i plan to run my factory sights for in close blasting (maybe with a high viz fiber optic ) and then flip them down and use teh "long distance" front sight for getting way out there.......and load some 77 grain heavies in it!
 

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To confirm what ShootingSight said, you do have to zero your iron sights from the factory.

FYI per the manual you zero using the front sight only -- be sure to read your manual (or find it online).
 

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On average at 50 yards, using bags, I'll get 1". At 100, 1.5-2". Sometimes better and worse

The sight adjustments are coarse, 1 moa for windage and 1.5 moa for everything else. I can't get poa/poi to match up, but it's good enough.

One thing you don't mention is your grouping. Until you are consistently getting a group, don't bother to adjust the sights. Put a limited amount of rounds in a target, so you can tell where the last magazine's rounds grouped. Use smaller bulls-eyes; I use 5" @ 50y and 8"@100. Ymmv.

Hth
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies, I will have to work on zeroing the rifle and setting up a paper target to see groups instead of just trying to shoot things like a milk jug.

I'm new to shooting so I really don' know what I am doing yet.

The scar 17s was is first rifle also.
 

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Iron sights on a rifle can be used and are used to place shots very accurately, ask the folks that shoot service rifle competitions. It takes some training and some practice. I would emphasize training as a first step. Once you know the ins and outs of iron sights practicing what you have learned will allow you to hone your skills.
Once you learn the skill it is kind of like a bicycle, you never forget. That said, every Spring when I pick up shooting after the winter layoff it takes a little of practice to bring the groups down to the size I was shooting in the Fall.
That said, I do use red dot and magnifying sights most of the time. Am I afraid of iron sights? No. Iron sights are often discounted but they are a tool most people just do not know how to use.
 

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I'm not in the same camp - I think the iron sights suck. They are emergency back up sights only, not meant for serious shooting.....
If you wear glasses for distance vision, ask the doc to write you a prescription for shooting lenses that have a +1.00 added to your prescription. Get PC lenses, as these are impact resistant.
I should clarify that I like the sight picture I get, even if they could be tighter. As I can barely see on one sight plane, I get them zero'd at 25, but usually need an optic for groupings. I'm intrigued by the nth shooting degree as it points out flaws in assumptions,but until shooting is my only hobby, I'll stick with accurate plinking. I have a very strong prescription, so I can make out the target, but the front post is a blurr. Sucks to get old.
 

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As I said in my post, you can fix the front sight blur. Take your prescription and add +1.00 to the spherical value for a SCAR. This will move your relaxed focus to the hyperfocal distance of the front sight, and your depth of field will be centered between the front sight and the target. This way the front sight will just be in the near edge of your depth of field, and the target will be in the far edge of your depth of field at the same time.
 

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My front sight was really tight when I first bought it and the groups were hovering in the 2"@100 range but they seem to be opening up with iron sights but not with optics now that the sights are broken in and flip up and down smoothly.

Did fiddling with my sights too much make them less accurate or am I just getting lazy from using an optic 70% of the time?
 

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Here is a link where I hit a small target at 100 yards with my iron sights out of the box: http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-photo-section/51435-first-time-shooting-my-scar-17s.html, with a little bit of practice I now can hit it consistently.

I just recently got into scopes for really long distance shooting. I was trained on iron sights and found out in most situations they are the most dependable. I have learned that scopes are very sensitive. If you are in a hot situation and drop your rifle or hit the ground hard more than likely your scope will need to be re-zeroed. In a combat situation that is a bad thing.
 

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I'm new to shooting so I really don' know what I am doing yet.

The scar 17s was is first rifle also.
You picked a good place to start. Welcome to the club!
 

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My front sight was really tight when I first bought it and the groups were hovering in the 2"@100 range but they seem to be opening up with iron sights but not with optics now that the sights are broken in and flip up and down smoothly.

Did fiddling with my sights too much make them less accurate or am I just getting lazy from using an optic 70% of the time?
Shooting is a skill that degrades over time. You have to keep doing it to keep the edge. While the basics of hitting a 18x18 target dont go away once you learn, its the subtle fine motor skills of perfect alignment breath concentration on the front sight post and trigger squeeze that degrades.

Sight wobble can make it hard to be pin point with scar sights but they are battle sights not precision tools.

No folding sight is good for precision shooting.

When i want to shoot precision with irons ill get out my rra match A2 but the scar i set them for zero folded them down and leave them folded. I use an optic 100% of the time and if the optic fails thats what the irons are for at that point.
 

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I've found the SCAR iron sights to be just as good as my Colt SP1 old style M16A1 iron sights, or Colt HBAR with the new style M16A2 iron sights.

They group a lot better than the red dot, that's for sure. Maybe not as tight of a group as you can get with a telescopic sight, but they will run rings around the red dot sights for pure accuracy work.
 

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I fired my SCAR for the first time today and also struggled with the irons out at 100 yards. I was shooting at a steel plat around 12" in diameter and I think I hit it maybe 25% of the time. At 100 yards the front sight covered the entire target. I'm sure I was pretty close, but I was still a little disappointed in MY performance.

I now understand why everyone talks about an upgraded trigger. I think that would have probably helped me a little bit. My SCAR also came with an AAC brake so the recoil was def more than I was expecting, which I knew would be more than the PWS brake.

With all that said, it ran flawlessly and I really had a good time shooting it. Now I just need to start saving for some glass and a trigger. :)
 

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My experience has been very good with my 17 sights. Out of the box I was hitting 100 yds with consistency after zeroing. Walked out to 200, 300 and 400 yds. Would miss a few but I attribute that more to the shooter, especially it being my first rifle. After more time with it and understanding it's characteristics, I am able to hit 600 yds with decent accuracy for iron, about 30-40% and much higher on occasions. My rifle still has under 400 rds through it so maybe over time the sights may loosen and accuracy drop but I'll have optics by then ... hopefully.
So I would definitely look to zero the sights then work on your mechanics to improve your grouping. Breathe and pull the trigger straight back. You may be flinching and not realize it. Have a buddy with you to watch how you react during the pull.
 
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