[Thermallator]

After not really liking the thing - it really grew on me in the last 6 months. The most important aspect was 50,000 rounds before a major malfunction - as reporter by one of our forum members.

No matter what I will do to my AR15, there's just no way to get that type of reliability. The only way to go with the AR platform is to go to a piston. HK makes the 416 - not avalibale to civilians (too bad for them) and POF makes an upper - seems OK but at over $1K just for the upper - it does not make much $$$ sense.

So .... unless there are any objections to me turfing the AR and picking up a black FS2000 ..... I'll be soon in the club. :?

-TH

 

[TheBadGuy]

My FS2000 is 100% Not a single hiccup. I actually wouldn't even know what to do with a malfunction since I never had one :-D

 

[SuA]

I actually wouldn't even know what to do with a malfunction since I never had one :-D

lift the toiletseat & flush? :twisted:

:x

 

[fnfalguy]

The fact that it looks like a rifle from the movie Starship Troopers is relatively amusing. However, I find the price point prohibitive to most "regular Joes" so to speak.

 

[cabrito]

The fact that it looks like a rifle from the movie Starship Troopers is relatively amusing. However, I find the price point prohibitive to most "regular Joes" so to speak.

don't most AR builds approach relatively the same price when all is said in done?

 

[ShipWreck]

No, U can get a decent AR for $800 up.

The one I thought about getting from Rock RIver Arms would have costed me $1050 or so + tax. The kewl S&W tac model AR is about $1100.

So, the FS2000 is a bit more...

Hell, the cost of the PS90 broke the bank for me... Then there was all the mags and accessories... Good god, I could have bought a lot of handguns with that... I debated on whether or not to get the PS90 or a Nighthawk 1911 at the time..

Back in my 1911 days, the Nighthawk was my dream gun. The Springfield TRP I bought a while back (and no longer have) was not as accurate as past 1911s I used to own. That sorta broke me from the 1911 bug after I kept shooting my P99 just as well as any 1911 I tried...

 

[fnfalguy]

I saw an FN2000 for $2049 today and cool factor aside, I didn't feel the urge to pick it up. For half of the price, I might be tempted.

 

[UPSguy]

I've seem someone post 15000 rounds, who has shot 50,000 through one?

 

[Iraq Ninja]

I assume that FN has done submersion tests is mud and water?

50,000 before a major malfunction is very darn good. But, its the minor malfunctions I worry about, and how it appears to be a bit more difficult to clear em on the F2000. I have never fired one, so school me on malfunction drills for it...

 

[SuA]

I assume that FN has done submersion tests is mud and water?

ofc... they even went as far as jamming the ejectiontube full of muddy snow to show the reliability of the rifle. you can also find some footage of the Belgian Special Forces Group (SFG) exiting the water in an SF competition. just drain the barrel & you're good to go.

50,000 before a major malfunction is very darn good. But, its the minor malfunctions I worry about, and how it appears to be a bit more difficult to clear em on the F2000. I have never fired one, so school me on malfunction drills for it...

havent shot one, but that's what the 'toilet seat' is for, right?

 

[mrcovert]

awsome awsome awsome!!!

:-x i got a fs2000 with the 512 eotech with a sks strap its sweet very accurate easy brakedown easy to clean gas regulator for lower grain or high grain ammo low recoil very comfortable to shoot realy high cool/wow factor i could not be any more pleased with my gun i highly recommend buying one :? you'll spend more up front but be please a lot longer and get compliments every time out get one now join the club you well not be let down :-D

 

[mcguiver-007]

I assume that FN has done submersion tests is mud and water?

ofc... they even went as far as jamming the ejectiontube full of muddy snow to show the reliability of the rifle. you can also find some footage of the Belgian Special Forces Group (SFG) exiting the water in an SF competition. just drain the barrel & you're good to go.

50,000 before a major malfunction is very darn good. But, its the minor malfunctions I worry about, and how it appears to be a bit more difficult to clear em on the F2000. I have never fired one, so school me on malfunction drills for it...

havent shot one, but that's what the 'toilet seat' is for, right?

I have even seen footage of someone shooting one under water. :shock:

 

[abpt1]

looking at one.. :?

 

[bullpuppy]

50,000 rounds without a malfunction without a single malfunction is too much to ask of any firearm. I probably had 7 or 8 problems in 4000-4500 rounds with my FS2000.

I got through a 1200 roundish Pat Rogers with 2 malfunctions and one failure to detonate.

The biggest functional problem I found with the gun is if not handled correctly it has been known to produce doublefeeds.

The doublefeeds occur almost exclusively when manually racking a round into the chamber but never while firing. I had it happen to me once in Pat Rogers' Carbine class because I rode the bolt forward and it did not go all the way forward because of the drag of my hand on the charging handle. When I racked the charging handle to clear it, I gave myself a doublefeed.

Another time it happens is when a mag is inserted when the bolt is locked back. Sometimes a bump or a jolt to the gun will result in the bolt jumping free and trying to slam shut. But because the the bolt often does not get a good release or encounters additional drag, the bolt does not close all the way and it doesn't fully chamber a round. If you try to resolve the situation by pulling the charging handle back and chambering another round, you will wind up getting a doublefeed with two rounds trying to enter the chamber. The workaround for this is to not insert loaded magazines when the bolt is open. Since the FS2000 does not employ a bolt hold open, this is not an issue when reloading after firing the last round of a mag has been fired. It is more of a range issue when you leave the gun with the bolt locked back for a ceasefire and then insert a magazine when it is time to fire again.

If one should happen to encounter this after inserting a magazine with the bolt open, the correct response is to drop the magazine and rack the charging handle until the round is ejected or falls out.

The workaround for this is to try not to insert a mag when the bolt is back.

 

[cabrito]

good info. but is it a user issue, an FS issue, or a combination?

 

[bullpuppy]

I think it is a combination issue. It tends to be more of a problem at a shooting range and some classes, but my riding the bolt forward, preventing it from fully closing, then pulling it back caused one of the two double feeds I had in a Pat Rogers class.

When the bolt goes not go all the way forward, it is almost a reflex to pull it back and release it. It is the same type of reaction to when you tunr a light switch and the light doesn't go on you turn the light on and off again until your mind stops the loop and says 'wait a minute, it's not going to go help.'

When you unload a gun for ceasefires (any gun) you will typically lock the bolt to the rear. When it comes time to shoot again, you typically insert a magazine into the gun and then release the bolt.

The problem with the FS2000 is that the notch on the left side of the receiver that the charging handle goes into to hold the bolt open is not as deep as it needs to be. It is possible to jar it or bump it or even cause vibrations through the gun when you slam a mag in that causes the charging handle to come out of the grove. But it is a bad release, so even though the bolt picks up a round it doesn't fully chamber it. Most people's natural reaction is to pull the charging handle back, which pulls the bolt back without ejecting the round but does feed another, causing a double feed. I got a few of these in the begining before I realized what was causing them.

In combat use it would be less of an issue because when the gun goes dry the bolt doesn't lock back so you would insert a magazine and then rack the bolt and it would be ready to go. You would not have the bolt locked back because the gun does not lock the bolt back on the last round of a mag.

I like the feel and balance of the FS2000 better than an AR. I seem to shoot better with it because of the balance. SO I am willing to put up with this.

 

[cabrito]

thanks for the extra details. info like this is what i'm looking for on this forum--to better help me learn the nuances of this gun.

since i don't shoot an AR a lot of complaints some people have about this rifle are lost on me. not saying this is the case with you but i feel like some comments are based on AR users trying to bring that platform to bear on the FS. "no drop free mag" "bolt doesnt stay open."

is there anyone out there that can reveal the european perspective/philosophy on battle rifles that the FS tried to accomodate.

 

[SuA]

it's indeed part of the european train of thought that many features might not be to the liking of some avid AR fans.

the fact that the mag doesnt drop free is double: on one side it allows for a tighter fit to keep fouling out of the magwell, on the other side it allows for easier tactical reloads (and thus saving mags from a damaging drop onto asfalt). added to this, if you're prone, your mag wouldn't drop free anyway with a gun like the F2000.

the bolt hold open is kind of a 50/50 issue. both have their pros and cons, but i dont think one has the advantage over the other, it is very dependent on the scenario. most european firearms producers tend not to go for a BHO. ram the mag home, rack the bolt and be ready to rock. this has pretty much become accepted as standard in european armies.

another problem often brought up is that to reload the F2000 (or any bullpup) you usually take your sights off target, especially when prone. appearantly many americans think that's a big no-no in a tactical situation, but generally accepted in europe. i think we assume you dont reload out in the open facing a threat anyway. (and target re-acquisition is pretty much a breeze with modern optics)

 

[bullpuppy]

The FS2000 cannot have a bolt holdopen device because it needs the closing of the bolt to push the empty case out.

One of the reason some countries are against the bolt hold open--countries like the former USSR in the AK47, AKM, and AK74, and Germany in the G3 and the MP5--is the belief that a bolt that stays open can after the last shot on the battlefield can result in debris getting in the action.

While the FS2000 doesn't have a bolt holdopen or a drop free magazine, I like the shorter size and better balance of the FS2000 over the AR. I find it balances better, is easier and more comfortable to shoot lefthanded or even one handed if need be, and balances better when shooting on the move.

Since I am a civilian, the liklihood of me getting into a gunfight where I either expend an entire 30 round magazine of ammo so I need to worry about the bolt locking back to let me know I am out, or having to do a fast reload is much less than a military person serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.
This makes these non-issues for me--so I take the fact that I shoot the FS2000 better and like its handling better as more significant to me.