[Germanic]

Here's the link:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/9961099721

Pay particular attention to member "EmbraceTheHate" in his scathing commentary regarding the SCAR:

Originally posted by EmbraceTheHate:
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Since they can't get the Govt. Contract ones running properly and fielded, I doubt the civilian version will be available any time soon.

And as one already noted.....what does it offer over any other 5.56 rifle? Nothing. Input from the SOF community? Yeah, REMF's who need to justify them collecting a paycheck every two weeks.

It will replace existing 5.56mm weapons with..................(drum roll please).....a 5.56mm weapon. Yippee!!! Does a lot for increased battlefield lethality.

The SCAR-H will replace existing 7.62mm weapons with.................(drum roll please).....a 7.62mm weapon. Pardon my lack of enthusiasm, but these things they say they offer, are already offered.

Another case of the wrong people, given the wrong jobs, and making the wrong decisions. Bean counters and desk jockey's have no business in deciding the warriors weapons.

Apparently, his SCAR experience is a LOT different than what's been reported by a number of other credible sources. I'm guessing he's feeling a bit threatened by the eminent sunset of the M4.

 

[djv38]

Either that or he really, really wanted the XM8 to go through. That was an interesting read.

 

[coldair]

why are people so hung up on defending the m-16 m4?

 

[dtheman]

Blind loyalty, they probably feel more American by not questioning the current standard.

 

[devildoc]

Very interesting read.

We all know that the majority of the "government weapons testing" is all BS. Deals are made that have little to do with the ability or attrabutes of one weapon system over another.
Are their better weapons out there that are better than the M4? Yes.
How much more is the first question, and the second is at what cost?
Also, we all know that in certian situations one type of weapon is better than another, as in up close VS long distance.
And let us not forget that we are talking about, at least, 4 million rifles, and we are all going to pay for it.

I'd rather see the services have several to chose from, than just one system. I say that for several reasons.

1) One weapon does not fit all.
2) The weapons chosen should fit the mission. Some are better in wet condition, some in dust, some in cold. Some are better for lefties.
3) Troops become loyal to their weapon. It is thier life they are holding in their hands.
4) Every weapon fails sooner or later, it happens, get over it. If the operator is well knowledged in the weapon system and is trained for possable failures, training should kick in.
5) Decreasing the one size fits all concept leads to more options, and more options are better than less.

My 2 cents

 

[Promoted Pawn]

As for the 5.56 and 7.62 that this guy is upset about- I think it has to do with a little thing called NATO.

No military would be interested in a weapon that shoots a unique round. For one, if the factory that makes said round is hit you're SOL.

And from all I've read the SCAR-L IS an improvement over other 5.56s, namely the M16 and it's little brother.

 

[LHS]

I can understand the argument, though. In the end, it's still launching the same bullets as our other rifles. I definitely see a need for a new rifle in 7.62, since the M14 is pretty long in the tooth and hard to properly accessorize with all the latest bells and whistles. But to replace the M4? I don't see a reason. My AR runs fine as long as I keep it moderately lubed. Then again, I don't drag mine through the mud and run thousands of rounds between cleanings, nor was mine made by the lowest bidder, nor do I run crappy ammo through it. And, truthfully, with the price of 5.56mm ammo today, I don't run much through it at all.

That said, the question boils down to this: how much money will it cost to replace the M4/M16 system (new guns, spare parts, accessories, training, armorers, etc), how much more effective is the replacement, and can that money be better spent elsewhere? If we could outfit every soldier with super-impenetrable body armor for the same cost as replacing the AR-pattern rifles with SCAR-Ls, wouldn't the armor be better than a marginally-superior (and that's debatable) rifle that fires the exact same cartridge?

 

[coldair]

if somebudy is shooting at me I want a weapon capable of a one shot kill and capable of knocking a hole in a hollow block wall in one shot not three. while the 7.62 is a fine round it is heavy. 220 rounds of 7.62 is a whole lot more spacea and weight to carry then 220 rounds of 6.7 spc and the 6.8 makes a whole lot bigger wound cavity then the 5.56

 

[devildoc]

Well the 6.8 SPC is a good round but it has some downside also. The 6.5 grendal in my opinion is a better round than the 6.8. The problem with alot of the concept weapons is cost to switch and how much increase in ability are you going to get for the money, because both of these rounds have armor penetration issues. The weight issue is a dog chasing its tail.

Wants
if you want a Big gun = heavy gun
lots of rounds = heavy ammo
low recoil = heavier gun
ammo that will penetrate superman = heavier ammo

Needs
Combat involves three items- Beans, bullets, and bandaids. The more you carry the slower you are. In the end, its shot placement that is more important than a magic "knock down" bullet. Haven't seen anyone shot between the eyes get up and want to fight anymore.

My 2 cents

 

[tombirdman]

Here's the link:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/9961099721

Pay particular attention to member "EmbraceTheHate" in his scathing commentary regarding the SCAR:

Originally posted by EmbraceTheHate:
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Since they can't get the Govt. Contract ones running properly and fielded, I doubt the civilian version will be available any time soon.

And as one already noted.....what does it offer over any other 5.56 rifle? Nothing. Input from the SOF community? Yeah, REMF's who need to justify them collecting a paycheck every two weeks.

It will replace existing 5.56mm weapons with..................(drum roll please).....a 5.56mm weapon. Yippee!!! Does a lot for increased battlefield lethality.

The SCAR-H will replace existing 7.62mm weapons with.................(drum roll please).....a 7.62mm weapon. Pardon my lack of enthusiasm, but these things they say they offer, are already offered.

Another case of the wrong people, given the wrong jobs, and making the wrong decisions. Bean counters and desk jockey's have no business in deciding the warriors weapons.

Apparently, his SCAR experience is a LOT different than what's been reported by a number of other credible sources. I'm guessing he's feeling a bit threatened by the eminent sunset of the M4.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

BOY IS THIS GUY BLISSFUL !!!

.

 

[JSandi]

I wonder if that's the same "EmbraceTheHate" who was outed over on Light Fighter or may have been Military Photos.net as some kind of an Airsofter and a liar regarding his claimed military experience?

IIRC he claimed service with some military unit which it turned out about 10 folks and long time LF members happened to be from.

 

[STL]

Ummm... this thread is thirty seven (37) months old. :mrgreen:

On another note, Tom, did you ever find the SCAR charging handle you lost or did you manage to get a replacement through Browning parts, or...?

 

[tombirdman]

Ummm... this thread is thirty seven (37) months old. :mrgreen:

On another note, Tom, did you ever find the SCAR charging handle you lost or did you manage to get a replacement through Browning parts, or...?

They sent a replacement.

 

[STL]

Ummm... this thread is thirty seven (37) months old. :mrgreen:

On another note, Tom, did you ever find the SCAR charging handle you lost or did you manage to get a replacement through Browning parts, or...?

They sent a replacement.

Thank you for the reply. :?

 

[Strongbow]

Threadcromancy!

Lock and load boys! The Zambies is acommin'!

 

[tombirdman]

Threadcromancy!

Lock and load boys! The Zambies is acommin'!

I AM SORRY TO SAY { " YOU MAY BE RIGHT! " }

If not for real figuratively!
All the ingredients are their !

1. TEA PARTY is a populus, non military, uprising against the way the goverment is working.

2. For the first timew in AMERICAN history - our credit has been downgraded !

3. OBAMA and his crew are threatening = over half the populous = social security, medicare, military benefits, as well as disability coverage which people live on with having their benefits cut or removed.

4. Over half of the U.S. population pays no taxes.

5. ECONOMY totally shot !

6. JOBS SHIPPED OVERSEAS = SEEMS TO ME THAT IF THEY WANT TO NOW SELL THEIR PRODUCTS IN AMERICA, AFTER REMOVING THE MANUFACTURING OUT OF UNITED STATES TO SAVE MONEY AND **** ON US = THAN MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY A "VAT" - VALUE ADDED TAX ON EVERYTHING THAT TOOK AMERICAN JOBS AWAY SO THAT IT WOULD BE CHEAPER TO MANUFACTURE HERE - IF THEY WANT TO SELL HERE !!! IF THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY THE TAX THEY CAN MOVE THE MANUFACTURING BACK TO AMERICA OR NOT SELL THEIR PRODUCTS HERE AND SEE HOW WELL THEY DO SELLING TO THE REST OF THE WORLD MINUS THE UNITED STATES.

7, THE GOVERMENT HAS MADE OUR PROBLEMS. THEY KNOW HOW THEY HAVE DONE IT AND WHAT THEY CAN DO TO CORRECT IT SO WE CATTLE THAT THEY FEED ON CAN BE (MORE CONTENTED COWS AND GO BACK TO GRAZING AND LEAVE THEM ALONE. )

DID YOU READ WHAT KERRY - OBAMA - PELOSIE & COMPANY, AS WELL AS THE LIBERAL PRESS HAVE SAID ABOUT US AND THE TEA PARTY.


TALK ABOUT CLASS AND CLASS WARFARE !!!


ALL THESE THINGS MAKE ME REALIZE THAT THINGS - MAY BE COMMING TO A HEAD.

GOOD THING A PEACEFUL REVOLUTION IS POSSIBLE THROUGH ELECTIONS. OTHERWISE WE MIGHT BE DEEP IN "DOO-DOO!"

THEY ARE SAYING OBAMA AND HIS KIND COULD WIN THE NEXT ELLECTION. { HOW }

KIND OF SCARY !

I HOPE THESE THOUGHTS ARE JUST ME BEING RADICAL !
I HONESTLY WORRY !


.

 

[Rlett4]

I have to say tombirdman that unfortunately, it appears you are pretty much correct in your assessment.

 

[GTS197]

"EmbraceTheHate"....'nuff said.