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I know that laws vary from state to state and that this is a very tough question to answer but I am considering reloading some 5.7 X 28 using the SS109 bullet listed as FMJBT (Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail). I am thinking that with the 62 grain bullet it will be easier to stay sub-sonic (needed purely for conservation of what hearing I have left) and I found a source that is offering the FMJBT SS109 for a good price.

Now being in Florida, I consulted the state laws on what is considered an AP bullett and this is what I found:

Chapter 790 WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.31 Armor-piercing or exploding ammunition or dragon's breath shotgun shells, bolo shells, or flechette shells prohibited.--

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Armor-piercing bullet" means any bullet which has a steel inner core or core of equivalent hardness and a truncated cone and which is designed for use in a handgun as an armor-piercing or metal-piercing bullet.


Now the SS109 being listed as a FMJBT and not a FMJTC (Full Metal Jacket Truncated Cone) seems NOT to apply here as the bullet does not have a truncated cone. Now the other part about being used in a handgun like the Five-Seven would also not seem to apply because of the lack of the truncated cone.

The other issue is the PS90. Am I reading this correctly to mean that even if the SS109 did have a truncated cone, it would be OK if only used in the PS90 and not the Five-SeveN?

Damn, this **** is so confusing that it makes you go nuts trying to wade through all the BS regulations. And then there is the aspect of whether the SS109 can even be considered AP because it is a .22 caliber which means that it is exempt from the GCA of 1968.

Just trying to stay legal and looking for accurate information as to the above questions.

TIA
 

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I was wondering this myself. The ATF's website states that the SS109 is not armor piercing. But either way, if you get caught with it, and the local police decide to dick you over, you may be in the right, but it will cost you an arm, half of a leg, and your left nut to defend yourself.
 

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Orbital said:
I was wondering this myself. The ATF's website states that the SS109 is not armor piercing. But either way, if you get caught with it, and the local police decide to dick you over, you may be in the right, but it will cost you an arm, half of a leg, and your left nut to defend yourself.

Laws are gray to screw over who ever they like to at the time......Justice is bullshit its all politics :(
 

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Pursuant to the latest ATF regulation in regards to the SS109 not being classified as armor piercing, this thread has been re-opened.

-TH
 

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I was wondering this myself. The ATF's website states that the SS109 is not armor piercing. But either way, if you get caught with it, and the local police decide to dick you over, you may be in the right, but it will cost you an arm, half of a leg, and your left nut to defend yourself.

that is a total b.s. comment unless your state has some dicked up laws. I live in Pennsylvania, and I never heard of any type of rifle ammo being prohibited.
 

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we were talking about loading the ss109 bullets in the 5.7. (for use in the pistol) The police are not remotely all knowing of the law. Couple whatever they tell the DA, you may be spending a lot of money on a lawyer to prove that you are not breaking the law. If they tell the DA that you have armor piercing bullets, you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, no matter what state you live in.
 

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Thermallator said:
Pursuant to the latest ATF regulation in regards to the SS109 not being classified as armor piercing, this thread has been re-opened.

-TH
Because it not designed to be used in a handgun. Do you remember back in the 90's when we all used 7.62x39 steel core (AP) from china?

Then Olympic Arms came out with an AR15 pistol in 7.62x39 and the ammo was banned from importation.

Now the 5.7 was designed to be used in a longgun, not a pistol. This ruling of theirs has no teeth. Its sour grapes on their behalf.

The law is in fact grey. Actually possession of the AP handgun ammo is only unlawful if used in a criminal act.
 

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I was wondering this myself. The ATF's website states that the SS109 is not armor piercing. But either way, if you get caught with it, and the local police decide to dick you over, you may be in the right, but it will cost you an arm, half of a leg, and your left nut to defend yourself.
Well, to get "caught" something tells me you'd have to be doing something to stand out. I don't think they'd walk up to you at a church picnic and strike up a conversation like "That potato salad is awesome! And did you eat one of Martin's burgers? Oh, by the way, do you happen to use armor piercing bullets in your 5.7?" Kinda have to be doing something to get them to look at you.

By the way, what's a dragon's breath shotgun shell?
 

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"Dragon's Breath" type shotgun shells typically throw a "flame" from the muzzle of the shotgun is is being fired from. I have seen these fired and they do look pretty spectacular (especially at night).

:shock:
 

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yellowfin said:
Well, to get "caught" something tells me you'd have to be doing something to stand out. I don't think they'd walk up to you at a church picnic and strike up a conversation like "That potato salad is awesome! And did you eat one of Martin's burgers? Oh, by the way, do you happen to use armor piercing bullets in your 5.7?" Kinda have to be doing something to get them to look at you.
As the admin here - I must do the obligatory statement and point out that while I do not know if such ammunition is considered AP or not, and illegal or not (depending on your state laws) - One should not break the law under the assumption that everything will be okay if you don't do anything to stand out.

It is your responsibility to find out what is legal and what isn't - and to do research on an internet forum on a subject that could get you put in jail probably is not the smartest thing to do. But, that is besides the point. We don't need encouraging of the breaking of ammunition laws for your locality, nor an explanation of how to do it.

Like I said - I have no idea what is legal or illegal in anyone's given area. But, I'm just pointing out the view of management here...
 

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msw362 said:
"Dragon's Breath" type shotgun shells typically throw a "flame" from the muzzle of the shotgun is is being fired from. I have seen these fired and they do look pretty spectacular (especially at night).
They look great but don't use them anywhere near dry grass or trees.
 

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So that's it? The dragon's breath look cool and that's the only thing to them? They're essentially nothing but simple pyrotechnics and some places outlaw them simply because...they're unconventional?
 

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Sometimes all it takes is typing something into Google for the answer....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Breath
 

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790.31 Armor-piercing or exploding ammunition or dragon's breath shotgun shells, bolo shells, or flechette shells prohibited.--

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Armor-piercing bullet" means any bullet which has a steel inner core or core of equivalent hardness and a truncated cone and which is designed for use in a handgun as an armor-piercing or metal-piercing bullet.

(b) "Exploding bullet" means any bullet that can be fired from any firearm, if such bullet is designed or altered so as to detonate or forcibly break up through the use of an explosive or deflagrant contained wholly or partially within or attached to such bullet. The term does not include any bullet designed to expand or break up through the mechanical forces of impact alone or any signaling device or pest control device not designed to impact on any target.

(c) "Handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver.

(d) "Dragon's breath shotgun shell" means any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric misch metal as the projectile and that is designed for the sole purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flamethrower.

(e) "Bolo shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels as projectiles two or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire.

(f) "Flechette shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels two or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid metal wire or two or more solid dart-type projectiles.

(2)(a) Any person who manufactures, sells, offers for sale, or delivers any armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet, or dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) Any person who possesses an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet with knowledge of its armor-piercing or exploding capabilities loaded in a handgun, or who possesses a dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell with knowledge of its capabilities loaded in a firearm, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) Any person who possesses with intent to use an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet or dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell to assist in the commission of a criminal act is guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to:

(a) The possession of any item described in subsection (1) by any law enforcement officer, when possessed in connection with the performance of his or her duty as a law enforcement officer, or law enforcement agency.

(b) The manufacture of items described in subsection (1) exclusively for sale or delivery to law enforcement agencies.

(c) The sale or delivery of items described in subsection (1) to law enforcement agencies.

History.--s. 1, ch. 83-253; s. 1, ch. 92-141; s. 1221, ch. 97-102.

I have bought ss109 from many gun dealers here in Florida so i would say it is ok to use and posses.

you can posses AP ammo in Florida but you can't load it into a handgun see section (2)(b). THis says nothing about using AP ammo in a rifle like a PS90 or a FS2000

But you can't make, sell, or deliver true AP ammo see section (2)(a). With this being said i would say that SS109 is not AP ammo seeing how available it is to the public.

i hope this helps.

Take care and be safe.
 

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SS109 is BALL ammo the steel core has nothing to do with piercing armor. There is a separate AP 5.56 round but they are very hard to find in any quantity and when you can cost a fortune.

SS109 has been classified as not "armor piercing" for some time. Besides, how would Joe Schmoe even know you were using them? Use them all you want in your 5.7 pistol, perfectly legal.

S.O.
 

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I have heard that anything over 55 grains (bullet weight) won't stabilize correctly in the 5.7 pistol and shoots like crap. I believe the ss109 weighs 62 or above? Also, to get the AP performance seen in the ss190, the bullet has a steel penitrator AND is light weight otherwise, composed of copper jacket and aluminum core - similar to core in ss192/195 HP bullets. I wonder about the effectiveness of wasting time with the nearly double weight ss109 bullet. I saw a post a while back where a guy was melting the lead out of ss109 bullets and replacing with pottery clay. That got the bullet weight way down and velocity up.

Any thoughts?

-Calvin
 
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