FN Herstal Firearms banner

21 - 32 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I wish I had a picture, but OP if you consider a straight line drawn through the bore and a straight line drawn from the laser being at an angle towards the bore line. The reason you'd want to "zero" at a far distance is to minimize the angle between the lines. If you zero at 10yds, the laser line is going to be at a much greater angle to come from the 2-3" offset from bore and intersect the bore line that close. So the variance even 5yds away will be HUGE. If you zero at 50yds, then the laser line's angle is much less and it will never be more than the same 2-3" offset from bore until you get out way past the 50 yds. Sure, at 7 yds the laser dot is going to be 2" low, but for that kind of engagement who cares! Put the dot on the target and click, MAYBE move it up an inch of two presuming you have time - but if you have time, you probably have time to find the sights...


As HK noted, you've still got the bullet trajectory to deal with, so none of this is really linear, but I suspect you will be WAY happier doing both things he suggests - getting the laser as close to bore as possible and zeroing much further away than you described.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
another question which is the better color red or green ? the green seems to be way brighter, and night you can really tell the difference between the two
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
another question which is the better color red or green ? the green seems to be way brighter, and night you can really tell the difference between the two
IMO green by miles. I meant to post this unit as well - it's super light but battery life is pretty poor and it's not a bright as bigger units which run off larger higher current batteries...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M2870O2
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,104 Posts
Green is easier on the eye but can be lost in the background. Power is the bigger issue. As a civilian, you are limited to 5mW of power for the laser. Police get 10mW of power. The P90 laser is a 10mW laser, the Den Trinity is 5mW as is any other civilian "weapons" laser. There are 2 surface mount resistors on the DT laser that can be changed to make it a 10mW laser but it is not an easy thing to do but this violates the law on civilian lasers for firearms. You can have a laser pointer that burns through things but not on a firearm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Green is easier on the eye but can be lost in the background.


Personally I think they're both easy to lose and with the "wrong" background color become almost invisible, so I won't argue but I'm not convinced that's a red vs green issue.

Power is the bigger issue. As a civilian, you are limited to 5mW of power for the laser. Police get 10mW of power. The P90 laser is a 10mW laser, the Den Trinity is 5mW as is any other civilian "weapons" laser. There are 2 surface mount resistors on the DT laser that can be changed to make it a 10mW laser but it is not an easy thing to do but this violates the law on civilian lasers for firearms. You can have a laser pointer that burns through things but not on a firearm.
I always thought this was an FDA regulation - sub-5mW for users without eye protection and training. I've long gotten units from folks like Z-bolt who tune them to meter at 4.99mW for example :p

I'm not aware of any law specific to laser power on firearms but again I won't argue the point. It's plenty easy to source higher powered lasers but do your homework as a lot of the cheap Chinese imports have no filtering and emit a LOT of harmful wavelength crap that's invisible to the naked eye - regardless of power output.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,104 Posts
Red vs green vs yellow vs purple and every color. Green washes out more easily then red. Laser manufactures know this and have studied it in great detail. In a house in low lighting and it almost becomes irrelevant save for background color. Conflicting coloring is a key issue. Green is easier to loose in normal interior colors than either red or purple unless the wall or clothing color matches the color. So there is a lot to look at as well. And yes the FDA is the controlling federal agency on lasers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
The FDA restricts the output power of visible lasers that can be sold to “civilians” to no more than 5 milliwatts (mW) and classifies lasers we are allowed to buy for firearms as Class IIIA. Good info here https://www.usacarry.com/laser-sights/
It's the "allowed to buy for firearms" that keeps getting me - I don't think the FDA has any particular tie-in to firearms, they just say that Class I, Class II, Class IIa, and Class IIIa are "unregulated" meaning anyone can buy and use them. Higher powered lasers are regulated meaning you're not supposed to be able to walk in off the street and buy one as any old joe without a safety and usage plan and all that mess. Perhaps I'm picking nits (geek engineer) but despite the USACarry author's statement, I don't believe there's any firearm component to the Class IIIa limitation.

IANAL, and I certainly haven't researched EXTENSIVELY but the FDA's own page doesn't seem to reference firearms at all:
https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/home-business-and-entertainment-products/laser-products-and-instruments

In any case, there's no doubt that OP should stay with a Class IIIa laser to get the maximum power allowed for unregulated use [:D]
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,104 Posts
A class IIIA laser is limited to 5mW. A class IIIB laser is over 5mW. A FFL went to jail for illegally obtaining class IIIB lasers and trying to sell them to "unauthorized" personnel, ie civilians. The FDA as well as ATF and other agency CID prosecuted the case. The FDA because they have authority under Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations to prosecute laser violations. These were firearm related lasers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
A class IIIA laser is limited to 5mW. A class IIIB laser is over 5mW. A FFL went to jail for illegally obtaining class IIIB lasers and trying to sell them to "unauthorized" personnel, ie civilians. The FDA as well as ATF and other agency CID prosecuted the case. The FDA because they have authority under Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations to prosecute laser violations. These were firearm related lasers.
Assuming we're both talking about Kelerchian, yeah, but I think the machineguns (HK416s IIRC) were probably what got him and the lasers were a bit of a tack-on. :D
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infco20190822137
In any case I believe we're in violent agreement that greater than Class IIIa lasers are fraught with peril both technical and legal and OP should stick with Class IIIa.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,104 Posts
Yeah the MGs did not help and the lasers were probably a tack on but it was meant to show that Title 10 is fraught with pitfalls for those that mix firearms and lasers. Class IIIA is the safe bet to go.
 
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
Top