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Discussion Starter #1
Lets talk about my new to me 16s setup.. First off I am out of my comfort zone with this guy, started with hunting rifles years ago, gravitated to single shot pistols for years, and then adding on revolvers and semi auto pistols. These "scary black rifles" are pretty new to me... anyway, just thought a little background was in order..

So what I have is a completely stock black 16s with a EOtech 516 sitting on top. I haven't shot it much, (maybe 40 rounds), I've got the basic sighting in done at 25 yards out in my drive. The EOtech co-witnesses perfectly (at least at that range). My problem is my old eyes, I would love to put some optic on there with some magnification but that would also allow me to use the irons without removing said optic. Also if it were to co-witness would be great.

Now I see a lot of you here spend as much on your optics as you did on your gun, I do not have that option, I wish I did. I'm hoping to find something in that $3-500 range, doesn't need major magnification maybe 1-4, 1-6 or something, something I could target a pop can at 100 yards or something.

Got any great ideas for me?

Thanks.
 

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Take a look at Primary Arms. They're a forum sponsor and make a number of affordable optic options.

Their fixed 4x Compact Prism might be a good choice at $259:
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-4X-Compact-Prism-Scope-p/pac4x.htm

or if you can wait a month or two, their new 1-6x model ($290+ depending on your choice of mount / options)
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-1-6X-Scope-with-Patented-ACSS-Reticle-p/paps1-6x.htm

They also have standard red dots with 3x or 6x magnifier options which are in your price range. For example the AA model:
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-AA-Battery-Multi-Reticle-Red-Dot-GE-p/pa-aamrg3.htm
 

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Lets talk about my new to me 16s setup.. First off I am out of my comfort zone with this guy, started with hunting rifles years ago, gravitated to single shot pistols for years, and then adding on revolvers and semi auto pistols. These "scary black rifles" are pretty new to me... anyway, just thought a little background was in order..

So what I have is a completely stock black 16s with a EOtech 516 sitting on top. I haven't shot it much, (maybe 40 rounds), I've got the basic sighting in done at 25 yards out in my drive. The EOtech co-witnesses perfectly (at least at that range). My problem is my old eyes, I would love to put some optic on there with some magnification but that would also allow me to use the irons without removing said optic. Also if it were to co-witness would be great.

Now I see a lot of you here spend as much on your optics as you did on your gun, I do not have that option, I wish I did. I'm hoping to find something in that $3-500 range, doesn't need major magnification maybe 1-4, 1-6 or something, something I could target a pop can at 100 yards or something.

Got any great ideas for me?

Thanks.
You can get the flip to the side magnifier for the Eotech. Primary Arms mentioned above makes a cheaper alternative to the OEM option that is still good quality.
 

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You might want to check out the Vortex PST 1-4. I run one on my 16 and it's amazing. The variable magnification makes it ideal for many different purposes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, I looked at these options you guys listed, the primary arms looks promising however the reticle does look a little busy to me, remember I come from hunting type optics, not opposed to learning however. Leupold obviously has a good name and their optics are less confusing. Vortex looks good too but way at the top of my price range.

How do these do with the standard iron sights, do they negate their use while on, or are you still able to flip them up and use them if the scope has a bad day?

Next.. the flip up magnifier for my Eotech... Glad you brought that up! How the heck do those things even work? I know they mount behind the site.. but wouldn't that just make the reticle/dot on the Eotech huge? Splain how they actually work to me if you would please.
 

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Ok, I looked at these options you guys listed, the primary arms looks promising however the reticle does look a little busy to me, remember I come from hunting type optics, not opposed to learning however. Leupold obviously has a good name and their optics are less confusing. Vortex looks good too but way at the top of my price range.
I don't disagree, but in person it's not as busy as you think.

You can also just get a straight primary arms red dot or other non-crazy reticle.

How do these do with the standard iron sights, do they negate their use while on, or are you still able to flip them up and use them if the scope has a bad day?
Magnified optics won't work with iron sights. You won't be able to see your front sight post while the magnified optic is in the way.

non-magnified Red dots can co-witness, meaning you can use both at the same time.

That's the reason for all the "flip to side" magnifiers. So you can have your cake and eat it to. If you want to use your iron sights, you flip the magnifier out of the way by hitting a button/lever and you can shoot unmagnified using your irons.

eg335.jpg

Next.. the flip up magnifier for my Eotech... Glad you brought that up! How the heck do those things even work? I know they mount behind the site.. but wouldn't that just make the reticle/dot on the Eotech huge? Splain how they actually work to me if you would please.
Yes, they make everything bigger. The red dot itself gets bigger (covers more of your field of view) but everything is closer.

That's why most people use them with the "small dot" red dots. i.e. a 2mo Eotech or Primary arms simple dot blows up to take up a bit more "screen" real estate, but it's not so big that it's going to cover your target or anything.
 

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Like you, I'm not made of money; tried the Nikon P-223, like the tick marks and find I'm good out to 400 plus yards on reasonably sized targets, like coyotes. For $150 you can't go wrong in my ever so humble opinion. They are 3x and much more effective than you might suspect. Personally, having used the M16 in Nam with iron sights, I just cannot see some of the crap that the wannabes load their rifles up with. There! I got that off my skinny little chest.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ooo, I have one of those Nikons in my safe, I may just have to give it a try. Was really wanting to keep the use of my irons though. Might have to try one of those magnifiers and see what it does.

And I agree with some of the gobbledygook people put on their guns.. I swear some of it is just to look "cool" or so they think anyway.😳
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So I borrowed a flip out magnifier from a friend of mine to try. Seems pretty good, I've not shot it yet with it on there so that's the next step..
 

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1. As mentioned, you will not be able to use the irons with the scope mounted.

2. I would buy a magnified scope that has a 30mm main tube instead of a 1 inch tube the Nikon's have. That way if you decide to upgrade your scope you will likely be able to reuse the mount. As most of the better tactical type scopes are 30mm now.

3. Buy a 30mm QD scope mount, there are quite a few good mounts. Then you can throw the scope in your pack and use your irons. Quality QD mounts can be removed and reinstalled without much loss of aim.

4. You could try an inexpensive magnifier and see if you like it. I tried an Aimpoint $$$$ and an EOTech Gen 2 $$$. They are heavy, clunky, have poor eye relief, and enlarge the red dot. You will get tired of it over time. I don't use them anymore.

These are my hardnosed reality based suggestions based on my experience. Don't do like I did and waste a bunch of money chasing the perfect solution. Use a scope OR a red dot but skip the magnifier. Others may see it differently of course.

Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Ok, here's a long delayed update on this. I got a Vortex magnifier , not top of the line, but not bottom either..but me likey...

I got tied up working up some rounds and such for a couple little pistols I got at the same time as this for elk season this year, but finally got out to my range over the last couple days to play with this.

Using this 3x magnifier at 100 yards was just what the doctor ordered (if I start shooting longer distance I may change things up). Started with the EoTech and the magnifier, granted not much eye relief but it all seemed to work. then went to just the EoTech, same results albeit a slightly larger group. Then on to the irons (perfectly co-witnessed by the way), same thing with once again a little larger group size... I'm very happy with the outcome and the magnifier.. might just have to save up for a better one!:biggrin:

Here is the last 3 shots (bottom 3) after sighting it in with magnifier at 100 yds..

 

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Discussion Starter #17
So now that I got this thing on paper at 100 yards I thought I'd roll some of my own rounds and see what I could do.. went with 223 brass, 55 gr and 60 gr bullets and 26.3 grains of Varget under each, only change was COAL.. I be happy... WAY happy.

This is the 55 gr Hornady FMJ-BT off a rest at 100 yards..



And here are the 60gr V-MAX at the same distance..



Now I need to roll some more up and set the POI right above the bull and I'll be set!

Did I mention I was happy with the result!!:mrgreen:
 
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