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Discussion Starter #1
So, I don't want to fork over $1800 on a SBR ar15/300blk right now - so I was asking a local class 3 dealer about just getting a stripped lower and getting the Tax stamp and form 4 out then build the rest of the gun during my 10 month limbo period.

I have a Trust.

Local guy said you have to know the exact length and build to submit the form: Random guys on the internet said just put 7.5" or lowest as possible on anything as you dont get in trouble for making it longer than the paperwork said, only shorter. This was a phone call to the local class 3 dealer mind you -

So whats correct? Do I need the whole rifle before I attempt a build? My sherrif will not sign for any reason so I kinda need to get it done before the rule change on trust/llc's .

Dumb question: Is there a limit to how much you can buy at a time? I just purchased 2 suppressors so making sure its not going to throw a red flag or delay it any longer if I submit more stuff before the deadline
 

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The Form 1 asks specifically for the length of the barrel. If you exceeded it I wouldn't expect that you would have an issue. You can convert an SBR to a non-NFA rifle without filing or notifications. At least that is what I understand.
 

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If you purchase a stripped lower DO NOT File a Form 4...You need to do a Form 1

If you know what length barrel you are going to get and which stock you plan on running hit the AR15 forums and you will find the Overall lengths pretty easy.

Note: legally you should always own whatever is needed to have said SBR in whatever length was filed with the ATF.... (IE if I filed a 9" with a 23.5" OL) I can put and run a 10.5 on BUT I can NOT legally go shorter than a 9" barrel or the 23.5" OL..BUT I should always own a 9" barrel to go on it even if I run a 10.5 or longer barrel at on it as well)

Purchase a stripped lower and then fill out the paperwork for a Form 1. In the mean time while waiting for the tax stamp install a pistol buffer tube and then you can legally be in possession of the short barrel and be able to enjoy the firearm until the stamp arrives to put on a true stock & or a vertical fore grip. Until you have a SBR stamp DO NOT install a stock or VFG or you could wind up very sad and in a lot of hot water!


You can covert your SBR into a regular rifle (temporarily) without notifying ATF...(I do this when I go hunting out of state and do not have the time to file the paperwork and get a response ("permission") to take the SBR across state lines) and then upon returning home I put it back into SBR configuration
 

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I did an AR15 SBR starting with a stripped lower.

Form 1 since your building the configuration. Serial number of lower will be submitted on the form.

Yes, you need to know barrel length, and over all length, as well as caliber.


You can assemble the lower while waiting. Just don't have the barrel, until you receive the form back with the stamp.
 
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So, I don't want to fork over $1800 on a SBR ar15/300blk right now - so I was asking a local class 3 dealer about just getting a stripped lower and getting the Tax stamp and form 4 out then build the rest of the gun during my 10 month limbo period.

I have a Trust.

Local guy said you have to know the exact length and build to submit the form: Random guys on the internet said just put 7.5" or lowest as possible on anything as you dont get in trouble for making it longer than the paperwork said, only shorter. This was a phone call to the local class 3 dealer mind you -

So whats correct? Do I need the whole rifle before I attempt a build? My sherrif will not sign for any reason so I kinda need to get it done before the rule change on trust/llc's .
Having the entire rifle before having your ATF approved Form 1 is illegal. You can put a pistol buffer tube and Sig arm brace on until the form is approved.

To submit your Form 1, get a stripped lower for serial number of firearm you are making. You need the caliber (be specific such as 5.56 as "Multi" is no longer accepted). You can switch uppers with different calibers after you have the approved Form 1. Select a barrel length which will give you the overall length for the SBR you want to build. You can switch uppers with different barrel lengths, shorter or longer after you have the approved Form 1. If you don't make an upper with the approved Form 1 specs, ie caliber or length, you are supposed to notify the ATF as that is a permanent change. You submit this form in duplicate, check for $200, and copy of your trust to the ATF yourself, no FFL/C3 involvement.

Dumb question: Is there a limit to how much you can buy at a time? I just purchased 2 suppressors so making sure its not going to throw a red flag or delay it any longer if I submit more stuff before the deadline
You will not raise any red flags, as tens of thousands have been submitting multiples of forms to get in before 41P. So much so that the ATF's eForms website couldn't handle it. Submit as many forms as funds allow.
 

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Everyone has an opinion. ARFCOM, has thousands.

Build it with the caliber, and length you intend to have. If you have any other AR's you run into an issue, if you have multiple uppers that are short barrel's. Constructive intent.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So, I went ahead and bit the bullet and purchased a 9" 300blk from AAC full SBR - but my question is to make sure my dealer guy wasn't bullcrapping me. Doesnt matter really but I was going to purchase a AAC 9" upper regardless and a lower would cost about the same its just I had to pay the $1000 a year earlier than I wanted.

The guy said that If i wanted to buy my own lower to make an SBR i'd have to pay a $200 manufactures tax along with my $200 tax stamp. This seemed contradictory to what I've heard but oh well.

The guy also said, that he is a manufacturer and could do it for me (no $200 fee) but that he would have to wait on a form 1 to come back on his end, before I could send a form 1 on my end - and I didnt want to have to wait double. Plus paying to get it engraved and such, I am not unhappy about my AAC purchase $1450 + 120 tax I just did not think I was getting correct info.

To explain why I even chose to use the guy, I bought silencers off silencershop direct and they were being shipped to him, and he will let me come to his shop and "play" while they sit in NFA jail
 

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The guy said that If i wanted to buy my own lower to make an SBR i'd have to pay a $200 manufactures tax along with my $200 tax stamp.
The guy is full of crap. All you'd need is the tax stamp.
 
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The guy is full of crap. All you'd need is the tax stamp.
Exactly, that guy REALLY need to educate himself next time before opening his mouth, he REALLY doesn't have a clue what he is saying.
When you do a form 1, you are the manufacturer but you do not need to pay some "manufacturing" tax only the $200 NFA stamp for the SBR. I along with many others have done the form1 for SBR's and non of us have had to pay $200 or anything for " manufacturing" our SBR's

To bad you where getting bad info from him but great that your getting your SBR. :?
 

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Agree with the others.
But what he said here; "The guy also said, that he is a manufacturer and could do it for me (no $200 fee) but that he would have to wait on a form 1 to come back on his end, before I could send a form 1 on my end - and I didnt want to have to wait double. Plus paying to get it engraved and such, I am not unhappy about my AAC purchase $1450 + 120 tax I just did not think I was getting correct info. "
Wouldn't it be a Form 1 for him and a Form 4 'transfer' to you?
 

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Wouldn't it be a Form 1 for him and a Form 4 'transfer' to you?
Correct, and you still pay 200 dollars. Save yourself money and build it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Correct, and you still pay 200 dollars. Save yourself money and build it yourself.
Well, actually it was about the same price.
1.) you cant buy AAC lowers so it would of been a mutt gun (functions the same but I like to match :) )
2.) AAC lowers come with Gisele triggers (not spelled right) $160 value and magpul and some special buffers and such
3.) after shipping on a stripper lower, and paying for engraving and FFL/shipping and such, I'd guess it would run about $450ish at least (as id want the same or better trigger) (oh yeah, no class 3 or any FFL fees since i bought it from him)

After looking at the specs and such, and deciding on getting the AAC 9" upper for $1000 off gunbroker, the lower did not really seem to cost much more than building it myself, the only difference is I could of held off on spending the $1000 now, and waited until next spring which would of been nice...


All-in-all I am not really dissatisfied with my purchase, as it saves some hassle of engraving and building, plus gives me a complete rifle with matching upper/lower - I was just aware that what he was telling me was probably incorrect and wanted confirmation .


Guess the only real question is: What would take longer, building it myself and doing Form 1 - or the form 4 I had to fill out to get a full SBR from the factory - as in, ATF/NFA jail wait time
 

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you said you have a trust.
e file your form 1 and pay your 1 and only 1 200$ tax stamp then wait.....
 

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The only limit to what you can buy is how much money you have.

Last year my dealer transferred 15 stripped lowers to me. ATF hasn't stopped by yet. I talked to an ATF guy during a raid earlier this year and he said don't worry about it.

This is what I did for my 300blk SBR build.

I started with a stripped lower. eFORM 1'd it. While it was waiting for form 1 approval (this one took 90 days), I just collected the parts needed. Built the lower after it came back from engraving. Didn't order the upper yet.
As soon as my eform 1 was approved, I ordered the upper.
That was my 10.5" 300blk.

But early this year, my dealer showed me a deal for an AAC 9" 300blk PDW pistol with free mag and 80 rnds of ammo for $1300.
Bought that right quick and in a hurry.
As soon as I got it, I took the upper off and stuck it on my PSA sbr'd lower. I took the internals out of the AAC lower and sent it off to be engraved and filed an eform 1 on it.

Got the lower back, rebuilt it as a rifle lower (hey, now I have a spare pistol tube, I can build a pistol lower out of one of my many stripped lowers). As soon as I got my tax stamp back for the AAC, I put it back together.

Now I have a matched AAC upper/lower/suppressor set up.

This is how I transport it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, I just ordered a Anderson stripped lower for $50 after tax/ffl/shipped - would you bother SBR'n a anderson lower or is it SSDD?


K I might test this out - help me out a second though as I've been given different answers by different folks.

1.) Barrel length + overall length - if I do not have an upper how is this information provided: What I really want is one of those PWS Diablo 7" uppers - So the real question is, If i put 7" barrel and just say 20" Overall length but later decide either I cant find a PWS diablo or just come across a great deal on a 10" would I run into trouble?

On the same note, what If i change stocks, what If i want to play around with a bumpfire stock which messes up the OAL too.

I've seen some people say A.) you must know the exact measurements (tend to be dealers who want to sell me stuff)
B.) Just put the minimum on every category so you can go longer than your listed barrel but not shorter.

ARe both of these wrong, or are both partially correct?


Another question: where is a good place to get something engraved, is it worth sending off, or is it something most gunshops can do.



LAst question: can anybody efile a form 1 or dealers only?
 

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Agree with the others.
But what he said here; "The guy also said, that he is a manufacturer and could do it for me (no $200 fee) but that he would have to wait on a form 1 to come back on his end, before I could send a form 1 on my end - and I didnt want to have to wait double. Plus paying to get it engraved and such, I am not unhappy about my AAC purchase $1450 + 120 tax I just did not think I was getting correct info. "
Wouldn't it be a Form 1 for him and a Form 4 'transfer' to you?
If he is a manufacturer (Type 07 with an SOT), he should build on a Form 2 and transfer on a Form 4. Form 1s are for individuals/trusts/corps to build a firearm. A manufacturer has a different paperwork process...
 

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Well, I just ordered a Anderson stripped lower for $50 after tax/ffl/shipped - would you bother SBR'n a anderson lower or is it SSDD?


K I might test this out - help me out a second though as I've been given different answers by different folks.

1.) Barrel length + overall length - if I do not have an upper how is this information provided: What I really want is one of those PWS Diablo 7" uppers - So the real question is, If i put 7" barrel and just say 20" Overall length but later decide either I cant find a PWS diablo or just come across a great deal on a 10" would I run into trouble? An AR-15 with 10.5" barrel has an OAL of 29.5' you want to go 7" barrel subtract 3.5" from your OAL

On the same note, what If i change stocks, what If i want to play around with a bumpfire stock which messes up the OAL too. You can change stocks and calibers but at the end of the day it has to be back into its "registered" configuration






Another question: where is a good place to get something engraved, is it worth sending off, or is it something most gunshops can do.
FROM THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT TO BE. If the lower already has serial numbers you don't have to do any engraving as it already has numbers assigned to it. that is what you put on the FORM 1



LAst question: can anybody efile a form 1 or dealers only? You can E file a FORM 1 if you have a trust
 
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Well, I just ordered a Anderson stripped lower for $50 after tax/ffl/shipped - would you bother SBR'n a anderson lower or is it SSDD?

I am not farmiliar with that "brand," but I would have spent more money to get a known quality lower. I suggest building up the lower and testing it with a rifle upper, before submitting the paperwork to the ATF for an SBR. Make sure you don't have any issues with it.


Another question: where is a good place to get something engraved, is it worth sending off, or is it something most gunshops can do.
FROM THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT TO BE. If the lower already has serial numbers you don't have to do any engraving as it already has numbers assigned to it. that is what you put on the FORM 1

Whomever builds the SBR configuraton must engrave their name,or name of the trust along with the city/town, and state, on the registered part. ATF rules.
 
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