[SeaMac]

Wait, what!?! You mean....nooooo, that can't be, say it isn't so?

I was told the same thing about my insurance plan/doctor, I'm now skeptical.

 

[RadScorpius]

Rad, You know how things play out here, not knowing about 7n6 but other's have come....and gone yet we remain. It is what it is, time tells all...

See! Evolution is true!!!!

 

[SeaMac]

Then I s'pose if we let evolution continue on its current course, those lower on the ladder will eventually become bottom feeders again too. No one likes a mullet well, most don't but they do make good cut bait...

 

[fnfalman]

My main critique of the SCAR was the flimsy folding hinge and buttstock.

I would prefer an aluminum bottom but I also understand the use of plastic for non-Stress areas.

 

[7n6]

A guy under the same username came on the bullpup forum and called the Tavor a "toy", "like a Tapco conversion kit", etc. Stuff borderline trolling. I believe this is the same guy, and he doesn't like polymer components on firearms, we get it, and we don't care, decades of combat records shows that modern polymer components hold up against extreme combat elements.

May I add that a user under same username was perm-banned on AK FIles, twice, as he sneaked in with a different username.

I am the same guy on the bullpup forum and HK Pro. The turd however that took my user name on AK Files is not me.

Oh yah, the Tavor is a toy.

AUG much refined, more better, most balanced.


7n6

 

[im.runandgun]

I should have been clearer!! I wasn't talking about the composition of the plastic/polymer, I was talking more about the integral design of how the polymer is used on a Glock, vs a SCAR, not comparable. The Glock is one piece of polymer and a handgun, not much to break there and nothing to leverage against. The SCAR has multiple polymer components and is a rifle, much more possibility of breaking. I have to say that it is very disappointing that we spend $2700 on a rifle and the first thing I did was buy a $63 dollar latch from Tango Down to make sure the cheap plastic one FN supplied doesn't break. I know this is a SCAR forum and if you look at some of my other posts I do nothing but praise the SCAR platform but we must be willing to admit it does have a few shortcomings.

Why replace the $63 latch? Was it broken? Weak? I've used my SCAR for a couple of years.....no broken parts....must have a thousand rounds thorough it.....no hiccups...& never been cleaned.

I think you are doing it backwards. Run it first THEN see what components need to be replaced...
I think you might find the stock components will hold up just fine for you. Unless you put your rifle through greater rigors then SOCOM.

.02

 

[ZipDog]

lol, I promised not to respond to this thread anymore. Just some advice, read the thread before you jump in and ask questions, odds are, it may have already been answered, maybe even twice!

 

[FullAssault]

I've had experience with a few platforms over the years and my SCAR has been impressing me for around 5 years now. The HK91 might be heavier but is in no way more durable and the FN 50.XX FALs are beautiful and smooth but they are still heavy and less accurate. My SCAR with an optic is lighter than either rifle, more accurate and IMO far superior.

 

[RadScorpius]

I am the same guy on the bullpup forum and HK Pro. The turd however that took my user name on AK Files is not me.

Oh yah, the Tavor is a toy.

AUG much refined, more better, most balanced.


7n6

Good, because the 7n6 from AK Files was an alright guy, he was banned for a heated argument on open forum.

I wonder where did the recent fasciation with throwing rifles in mud came from? InRange TV threw M1 Garand, M1A, AK, AR all into a raw concrete like mud mixture, all of them failed except the AR, it had a polymer lower receiver which provides a tighter seal than the standard lower, plus about the only saving grace of an AR is being a sealed system.

If I went for a swim in a swamp I'd be more worried about my own life than my rifle working, sinking into mud, snake, gators, etc. And if one's rie did fell into a mud hole, it is more likely to get a bore obstruction and a kaboom following it.

Even Russian troops with AKs are being instructed to hold their rifle over their head when walking through rivers to avoid getting their gun gunked up. All rifles were designed to launch projectiles, some will take more abuse than others, but if you dip them in nasty enough ****, must will fail.

I can't help but to notice you seems to have a thing with coming into a forum about trash talk about the guns it is dedicated to. Does it make your life feel more eventful?

 

[7n6]

Good, because the 7n6 from AK Files was an alright guy, he was banned for a heated argument on open forum.

I wonder where did the recent fasciation with throwing rifles in mud came from? InRange TV threw M1 Garand, M1A, AK, AR all into a raw concrete like mud mixture, all of them failed except the AR, it had a polymer lower receiver which provides a tighter seal than the standard lower, plus about the only saving grace of an AR is being a sealed system.

If I went for a swim in a swamp I'd be more worried about my own life than my rifle working, sinking into mud, snake, gators, etc. And if one's rie did fell into a mud hole, it is more likely to get a bore obstruction and a kaboom following it.

Even Russian troops with AKs are being instructed to hold their rifle over their head when walking through rivers to avoid getting their gun gunked up. All rifles were designed to launch projectiles, some will take more abuse than others, but if you dip them in nasty enough ****, must will fail.

I can't help but to notice you seems to have a thing with coming into a forum about trash talk about the guns it is dedicated to. Does it make your life feel more eventful?

Obvious you can't let go of the cross talking that goes on the bullpup forum between the AUG and Tavor guys bringing that here. Most of that is just joking around anyway. As far as my opinion overall on what I perceived as things I would personally change on the SCAR- that's my opinion. I can have that opinion, I've run a lot of different rifles in the last couple decades. It allows people to have a conversation, people reflect on their personal experience or why they might agree or disagree. This allows for aftermarket development as well. As far as torture test videos go- I love them. Who doesn't. It ain't my rifle getting thrown in the mud, let some other guy do that and see if it works.

7n6


FYI this is why I bought the SCAR.

 

[Cadpack]

https://www.facebook.com/Recoil.gun.lifestyle/posts/672896326122905

We received the below feedback from one of America's finest serving overseas right now. The below account is unedited and we share it with you because we're so proud of our FNH USA products and the work America's service members do with them!

"The following scar 17 was used in a very intense battle that lasted a lot longer than the typical TIC or troops in contact situation that are usually short in duration.

Multiple enemy combatants as well as US and coalition forces were both KIA or wounded in action. Close air support was heavily involved as well.
The rifle was put through one of the worst scenarios in this country probably ever. These pictures are not staged or photoshopped in any way. This picture was taken immediately upon the team returning to base.

The rifle did not malfunction once! Not one failure of any type.

I feel that this event as small as it is in the big picture needed to be documented and reported to you guys to forward to higher ups if necessary so that you as friends of mine and they were aware of how reliable and incredible this rifle is. I do not have an exact round count but it was at least eight fully loaded magazines. Half of those were used after the rifle decided to see how small of a ball it could actually curl into while taking cover in a muddy **** hole."

 

[mityno1]

Well put Mity, the reality is however few 7.62 rifles are very controllable in FA, which is why FA is not used much but as you say if it's needed it's available which is why the functionality is there but that's usually indicative of something having gone terribly off-script. Select-fire platforms have a tendency to climb skyward in FA, which has you shooting over an intended target, plenty of places rent them, go check one out if you can, it's definitely a different experience and an eye opener for those that have never switched the "fun" on.

Waaay back in the 1970's, when I was only 16, I got to run an old skool M60 on a bipod and an M16 in full auto at Camp Frank D. Merrill. That sort of hooked me on the gun hobby thing.

I grew up and still live near Powder Springs GA where some famous and infamous people were doing some pretty cool stuff with firearms back then. People like Mitchell WerBell III who among many other hard to believe things, was an early suppressor innovator, some of his designs are still copied today. He was the first to use titanium to lighten the weight of a suppressor.

And there was Gordon B. Ingram, who invented the MAC-10/11 and produced it at his MAC factor in Powder Springs in the early 70's. Those are the best quality and most collectible ones.

Sylvia and Wayne Daniels bought the MAC factory assets and renamed the company RPB (Rape Pillage and Burn - which is the correct order to commit those crimes because if you can't pillage after you burn very well.) RPB made MAC-10/11's but there were some legal or BATF issues so they shut down RPB and reopened under the SWD name still making MAC-10/11's. Later they made the Street Sweeper shotguns and other crap like that. After the 86 ban they changed the name or merges with Cobray. They stayed in hot water with BATF and I pretty much just stayed far away from them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobray_Company

There was also J.D. Farmer who ran the Hard Times Armory in Smyrna Georgia next door to the Smyrna Police Station who was an amazing gunsmith, machinist, designer, engineer, inventor... who did mostly full auto and select fire conversions as well as Ruger MK-II pistol integrated suppressors and stuff like that before the ban in 86 shut him down. He was an awesomely cool dude and his stuff was righteous. You will see Hard Times Armory Class III conversions on gunbroker and other sites from time to time, he probably turned out several thousand conversions of various types before the ban.

Paul LaVista ran a gun shop and indoor shooting range, The Bullet Stop in Marietta GA that rented full auto's in the 80's before anyone else around here even thought about renting MG's. His wife was Mitch Werbell's daughter. He reported someone had stolen several MG's. Then he went for an oil change or something and the shop found a bomb under his car. He said a South American Cartel was after him or something. FBI investigators determined the C4 explosive under his car was not rigged properly to explode and some other issues with his stories led them to indict and convict him for a litany of big boy crimes. I don't recall how many years he got or if he is out or even still alive. Looking back I suspect he was doing real meth (not the pseudo-meth today) and it made him go crazy. I never shot in Paul's range because back then we could still shoot in the backyard or wherever in the woods because this area was still somewhat rural in places. Those days are long gone. One place we used to go shooting, ride dirt bikes and go 4 wheeling ended when Glock USA built its US factory there on that very spot in Smyrna GA in the early 90's.

Anywhoo I could ramble on and on about how many people in this northwest corner just outside of Atlanta were so well connected to the automatic firearms industry over the years... but I'll wrap it up by saying in the 80's, almost everyone I went shooting with has something with a fun switch or was as Class III dealer back then, a good many probably did not have all the stamps. It just wasn't as big of a deal in that era before 86 as it is today. I never ran across anyone with a select fire M14 so I have never had the opportunity to fire one myself. Lots of people say they are beast to control and the FAL was the least difficult to manage .308 in auto but nobody I know has ever had a FAL. Weird? I can't see the Scar H being anything but better than the FAL in that department, but I have never shot a FAL. I have run lots of ammo through various machine pistols and a few others like the Thompson. MAC's were everywhere around here back then as you can guess they would be after some 15 years of local production and rumors were not all of them went out the front door. But Uzi's, MP5's and $400 full auto M16's were common too.

Oh yea... The first thing to never forget about running a full auto machine pistol is to cup your off hand UNDER fore end and NEVER on top of it. That way if it climbs out of your grip, you won't shoot your fingers off.

Of course none of that makes me an operator, gunsmith or even an expert at anything except maybe having more than the average amount of civilian experience ejecting brass, leading barrels and turning clean guns into dirty ones back when a box of 50 rounds of 9mm FMJ was like $3 in the Shotgun News.

I wish I knew of a place anywhere around North Georgia that had a Scar H for rent, I'd make time to burn as many mags as I could until my fingers cramp up too much to keep reloading mags... because that is the part that really sucks about the fun switch... several minutes of stuffing mags only gets you a few seconds of what quickly becomes increasingly expen$ive fun time.

TLDR summery: I'm a nice old man and I ramble on about the distant past. But a long long time ago... I didn't used to be so old or so nice. :mrgreen:

 

[RadScorpius]

Obvious you can't let go of the cross talking that goes on the bullpup forum between the AUG and Tavor guys bringing that here. Most of that is just joking around anyway. As far as my opinion overall on what I perceived as things I would personally change on the SCAR- that's my opinion. I can have that opinion, I've run a lot of different rifles in the last couple decades. It allows people to have a conversation, people reflect on their personal experience or why they might agree or disagree. This allows for aftermarket development as well. As far as torture test videos go- I love them. Who doesn't. It ain't my rifle getting thrown in the mud, let some other guy do that and see if it works.

7n6


FYI this is why I bought the SCAR.

I do not make decision based on a few videos, in your "Tavor is a toy" supporting video, the AK worked for a bit and AR did not, however you can find other video on the Internet where AR worked and AK did not. A good indication of a firearm's performance is if you see a pattern from real users who do more than killing papers. Did many military adopt it? Didn't soldier report favorable results? Or did they complain?

One or even 5 YouTube video doesn't prove Jack, if that short French torture test is all you used to base your purchase decision on, then it could explain why you aren't completely happy with it.

 

[mityno1]

I want to see videos of two rifles placed in gun vices and being controlled remotely from a safe location shooting each other like a junkyard derby... the rifle that can take the most bullet strikes and still operate wins!

And I would buy that winning rifle too, just based on the video because it would make it the coolest rifle like EVAR!

 

[SeaMac]

Damn Mity, your post #52 got me all sentimental for Georgia reading it this AM. The Peach State and I have a long history, Benning, Hunter, I had a vacation home in Buffington, Bargain Barn, my Mom lived in Marietta home of the BIG Chicken, I have a contractor friend in Smyrna, family and friends blast hogs in So. Ga., I've beaten the water to a froth far too many times to mention on Lakes Allatoona and Lanier, been numerous times to NESCO for Fire Alarm Systems certification. I've built buildings in Dalton and Kennesaw home of carpet and required gun ownership respectfully. Great state Georgia however you can have Atlanta and keep it too, the traffic in that town is an abomination of humanity. Thanks for the memory flashback....

 

[RadScorpius]

Another individual's Tavor mud test, completely different result, again, not enough to prove anything.

Tavor mud torture test - Album on Imgur

 

[aquaticpig]

...

7n6

That you? Nice vid. Appreciate the SCAR video also. As far as accuracy, after you fixed the torque issue, I'd be curious to see after some testing if you still feel it an inaccurate rifle. Most on here put it at 1 MOA or less, which is IMO very good for a semi auto battle rifle.
As far as opinions.....well, you are airing an opinion in a fan forum. And the great thing is that you can. But it's like telling us France is better than the U.S. while sitting in Texas....you might stir up a few arguments by some people who are (for good reason) overly endeared with what they have. Heck I almost jumped on to voice my contrary opinion and why i disagree. But in the end they are opinions based on true or false assumptions.

 

[Stealth_OPS32]

7n6, just curious- Have you ever owned the FNAR? If so what are your thoughts regarding the quality relating to the rifle. I am not a fan of plastic or polymer for that matter. I do however appreciate good design and function!

Kansas,
I was extremely interested in the FNAR when I was researching rifles, but the deal breaker for me was finding many reviews saying its non-freefloating barrel causes a great loss in accuracy, particularly when using bipods or resting the forend of the stock on something to shoot from. I'm not sure if there are aftermarket stocks available for it now or not, but this is a big issue if you want any sort of repeatability for accurate shots.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[7n6]

Another individual's Tavor mud test, completely different result, again, not enough to prove anything.

Tavor mud torture test - Album on Imgur

That's not a submersion test as I linked. That's just the old, dirty on the outside test- which only matters if mud gets into the chamber. The submersion test in brackish water is the elimination test to look for on weapons.

I do not make decision based on a few videos, in your "Tavor is a toy" supporting video, the AK worked for a bit and AR did not, however you can find other video on the Internet where AR worked and AK did not. A good indication of a firearm's performance is if you see a pattern from real users who do more than killing papers. Did many military adopt it? Didn't soldier report favorable results? Or did they complain?

One or even 5 YouTube video doesn't prove Jack, if that short French torture test is all you used to base your purchase decision on, then it could explain why you aren't completely happy with it.

You didn't watch the video completely and you don't know why I linked that particular submersion torture test video. The AK ran, pretty much without exception until it fed some debris in the chamber. AK's are great until you actually fill them with enough sand to keep the trigger group from resetting or debris blocking the chamber. The AR died because AR's never do well in a brackish water "over the beach" submersion test due to the tight tolerances around the carrier group and upper receiver- basically there is no where for the sand to go. The Tavor also died which honestly surprised me given the room around the components and the way the system was purposely designed as a long stroke but I suspect it has something to do with the multi-lug AR esque bolt design, something I've never been a fan of even when it's in an AUG or even a SCAR. However I've seen another video by Hank Strange where the Tavor also died in a separate brackish water submersion test- so perhaps somehow it forcing debris into the gas port itself but I don't know. Now I wish the guy had a SCAR with him to try out in that video I linked that had the Tavor, AK, and AR but he didn't. However that other video I linked shows a SCAR surviving the brackish water submersion test. That single test will weed out the reliable rifles from the unreliable ones.

You can shovel dirt or mud onto the outside of a weapon all day, if the weapon is a relatively sealed system- it should run pretty well. You can even low crawl through mud again, with the same rifle and it should run because it's a sealed system. However submerse the rifle in brackish water not purposely forcing anything into the actual system or compromising the chamber such that it can't feed because a round is already chambered- but just allowing the water with silt to go where it may- and that will quickly show which weapons are reliable. People confuse the over the beach test as a simple water submersion- it's not, it's the crossing from the rolling sandy water near the beach head then firing. The water itself rarely causes issues in most weapons once properly drained, it's the silt that it's in the water that causes issues and that is the factor that I look for.

Second dirt test I look for are dry fine sand dusting tests, which every rifle should work but many don't especially when lube attracts dirt. The third test every rifle should be able to complete is the sub zero condensation test, essentially leave a weapon outside in sub freezing temps, then bring it inside where the air around it causes condensation on the metal as it warms, then bring back outside once more to freeze for another hour- then run it.

That you? Nice vid. Appreciate the SCAR video also. As far as accuracy, after you fixed the torque issue, I'd be curious to see after some testing if you still feel it an inaccurate rifle. Most on here put it at 1 MOA or less, which is IMO very good for a semi auto battle rifle.
As far as opinions.....well, you are airing an opinion in a fan forum. And the great thing is that you can. But it's like telling us France is better than the U.S. while sitting in Texas....you might stir up a few arguments by some people who are (for good reason) overly endeared with what they have. Heck I almost jumped on to voice my contrary opinion and why i disagree. But in the end they are opinions based on true or false assumptions.

No that isn't me, I linked the video because it shows various rifles surviving or dying in the brackish water submersion test. The one test I feel is the pass or fail of an entire rifle system. Never said the SCAR was inaccurate- it just has a poor barrel mounting system with a half dozen screws holding it in the action that can obviously be torqued to one side or the other if you're not careful.


7n6

 

[SeaMac]

7n6, I'm curious what you know the definition of brackish water to be, you also reference "over the beach". Since I live in and am a native of Florida where we are surrounded by saltwater with brackish water leading to or from all freshwater sources I am somewhat familiar with brackish water. Brackish water is a mixture of salt and fresh water nothing more, the further inland you travel the less salt content, travel the opposite direction the greater the salt content. Over the beach is self explanatory, it commonly means Troops/Marines/Operators coming out of the sea's saltwater while landing on a beachhead. The SCAR Mk17 which by the way is a darling of the SEALs because it functions quite well in their operating environment aka saltwater. Again, not wanting to sound rude or disrespectful but please speak about what you know without interjecting subjects you are factually unfamiliar with and unknowledgeable in. We strive to keep information factual based in this forum with supporting proof or evidence. You may have two decades of experience wrenching on and running the platforms you speak of, remember though in this particular forum you're talking 1000's of years of combined knowledge, experience, wrenching on, running and usage of various platforms in combat. Make not the mistake that collectively, we are stupid!