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p90 selector in ps90? legit or no?

26K views 98 replies 20 participants last post by  SAVAGEJIM 
#1 ·
I have seen plenty of p90 selectors for sale... I want one for looks on my sbr. Hammer pack is gen 3. Can I put the selector on and be ok with no ill effects? Tried to search for the answer but couldn't find it.
 
#45 ·
I wonder how "he" is doing. :eek:
 
#50 ·
If you're looking for legal advice, speak to an attorney who is well versed in firearms law at the federal level as he would be the one representing you if your were charged with violating a section of The National Firearms Act, not somebody posting anonymously on an internet forum.
 
#52 ·
I dont know any other state laws, but as I understand the Washington state laws, even if the firearm is still legal with the p90 selector the part itself is not because it is intended "solely" for use in the p90 and was never an option for the ps90.

RCW 9.41.220
Unlawful firearms and parts contraband.

All machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband
 
#53 ·
All this talk about the NFA and GCA etc of the USC and breaking it:
Yes, obey the law, but we need to do more than *****foot around and worry about breaking the USC and other laws, we need to do our best to get these damned UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws repealed or at the very least amended.

We we would not have to be worrying about stupid things like a silly safety switch having three positions or breaking forum rules.
We won't have to worry about the BATFE enforcing infringing laws or creating like regulations
 
#58 ·
Pretty much could have told you that.

If you want to, you can use a utility knife to remove the block on the selector switch, then get a stencil set or some nail polish and paint an "A" on the selector switch. Your $1.99 solution. Or just paint the "A" on the regular selector switch and be done with it.

New PS90/FS2K selector switches are somewhere about $5 to $8 depending on where you get them.
 
#68 · (Edited)
Does anybody have a returned BATFE letter on this with this specific question asked? Not that I am SBRing my PS (I'll keep my $200, thank you..) I've always just been curious. One would think that the SA sear still being in place and operational would make the fact that the trigger can be pulled back a little further (putting more stress on your main sear spring) would be a moot point. It still doesn't shoot FA unless illegally modified.. (See AK variants) I personally think It would be cool to have that "A" stamped on my selector, but %99 of the fake ones don't 1- allow three real positions and 2- match the factory paint and look "added" or "engraved". If it's a legal mod, I'd be down to buy the part for the asthetics *shrug* our guns look BA anyways.. Why not make them cooler looking?
 
#77 ·
So as I mentioned in my initial post, if you want an answer that has more weight to it than an internet forum, call the ATF and ask to talk to an agent in the technical branch. You don't need to identify yourself, and just ask them if in stalling a full auto switch is legal, if it does not really make it auto. I think you will find that they appreciate people calling them before there is a problem, and they will be honest with you to help make sure there is not problem.

For what it is worth, I know that several people sell old M14 full auto switches, which people install if for no other reason than to take up the spot in the stock that was cut out for the switch. They are not hooked up to anything, they do not make the gun auto, and as far as I know, they are completely legal. So I think this is a non issue, but just don't rely on the opinions of the uninformed internet. Not a single response so far has come from a true expert in the field, and you know what they say about opinions, and you know what they say about free advice ....
 
#78 ·
Yeah but the stupidity and fear has to stop somewhere. Next, everyone will want you to call the FTB to see if putting a "heavy barrel" on an AR15 requires ATF approval, I mean after all, a "heavy barrel" is used only on machine guns........Wow, this is constructive intent because you want that barrel only because it can take auto fire, blah blah blah blah.

It is a part that does absolutely nothing to make the PS90 into a machine gun. In fact, those in the know know that you can make the PS90 into a machine gun without the P90 capable selector switch so the part is not even needed.

There is only one part on the entire PS90 that is an issue and that is the primary sear (as it is on hundreds of firearms). Screw with the primary sear and go to jail. That is why it is pinned, so you can't screw with it. Oh but people have tried and now because of that, we are still waiting for another re-design of the hammer packs. Although mechanically, I so not see how the hammer pack can be made any differently and still remain a SA hammer pack. And just because FN restricts the selector to Class 3 dealers does not make it automatically a no no item on any list maintained by the FTB.

Go ahead, call them. They are going to say write a letter for a determination. Then they are forced into a determination letter that nobody wants or needs. And you know what the letter is going to say? We do not recommend that you install it however it does not make the PS90 into a machine gun, or they will take the M16 trigger group approach and say that any part associated with M16 trigger group parts is a combination of parts used to make a machine gun and start the outlawing of all hammer packs, all hammer pack after market parts, all trigger components, etc etc etc. Yup, we really want to go down this route. It is a freaking part that does nothing to make the PS90 into a machine gun any more than a sling will make your firearm into a machine gun, even though I can use parts of a sling to make the PS90 into a machine gun. See, just about anything can be used to make something into something it was not designed to be.

I have a Jennings 22 that I can file down the sear and make it into a auto firing pistol (according to the web) so do we now get a determination from the FTB to see if you have a Jennings 22 then you can't possess any files because the are "parts" used to make a machine gun? Stupidity at its best.

Everytime you ask the FTB for a determination letter, the government becomes stronger and more restrictive of your rights. Oh, and it gives them an opportunity to change their minds, three or four or five times down the road, so it's useless anyways.
 
#79 ·
Topic: Installation of machine-gun components in semi-automatic firearms.

The person publicly declares, "I'm not going to make a machine gun. I just want it to LOOK as close to one as possible..." doesn't let the person off the hook if he gets caught and is prosecuted....whether he actually broke a law or not. He's still going to pay attorney fees to defend himself.

Can you install a P90 hammer pack in a PS90? Can you install a P90 bolt in a PS90? Can you install a P90 selector in a PS90? Can you install an M16 Carrier in an AR15? Can you shove a hot dog down the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun and fire the weapon? Can you wear clear plastic as clothes in public?...

The answer to every one of those questions is yes. Whether it is legal, prudent, SMART or not, can be determined in a number of ways, one of which would be to go ahead and do so and if you're arrested for doing so, please let everyone know how it felt.

And yes, an expert in the firearms field has responded in this thread, as well as an expert in soap.
 
#83 ·
Thanks for that.

I will still not tell people that something is illegal when it is not based on scare tactics and the boogy man is going to get you.

Untill someone from the Firearm Technology Branch says otherwise and can produce the legal backing for it, it is all just conjecture because we are all guessing but I have yet to see a specific legal document or regulation or determination letter indicating that this is not allowed. (I keep this at the Federal Level)

It does nothing to change the semi automatic firearm into an automatic firearm. The AUTO sear is more of a Tital II part (which it is not BTW) then the selector switch is and I have not heard about the ATF or FTB demanding the removal of the Auto sear from the hammer pack (even though it is against the law to have one in a AR15 lower). Because it does nothing the change the operational characteristics of the firearm.

There is only one piece that makes it boom boom boom. Keep your hands off of it and your are OK. The SBR alone as mentioned earlier in the thread is going to attract more attention to the firearm than a plastic switch with a red A on it.
 
#86 ·
HK SD9 Tactical said:
We are talking about a PS90 that has a plastic switch that has no operational value what-so-ever in making the PS90 a machine gun.
StrykerEnterprisesLLC said:
It does have operational value in a sense that without it, the P90 cannot fire in automatic mode.
No, SD9's correct in a PS90 in has no operational value. You had to conflate that with a P90 to try to make your point. What a P90 can or cannot do is not germane to the conversation.

StrykerEnterprisesLLC said:
The person publicly declares, "I'm not going to make a machine gun. I just want it to LOOK as close to one as possible..." doesn't let the person off the hook if he gets caught and is prosecuted....whether he actually broke a law or not. He's still going to pay attorney fees to defend himself.
Pardon me, my good sir, but you seem to have left one tiny but essential part out of your statement. Caught and prosecuted for what, arson, burglary, check forgery?
Having a full auto machine gun? Since the plastic piece in question won't make a P90 go 'pew,pew,pew,pew' exactly how is that gonna happen?

The ATF has been quite specific that although it does not recommend installation of M16 parts in an AR15, it does not prohibit such unless it causes the firearm to fire more than once with a single pull of the trigger.

Again, their very words on the subject were...
We can only inform you that if this installation were to create a firearm that fires automatically, it would be a machinegun as defined; conversely, if it did not result in the production of a weapon that shoots automatically, it would be lawful to posses and make.
- Sterling Nixon Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
 
#88 · (Edited)
Can a P90 fire automatically with a PS90 selector installed?

You want to go there, okay.... let's explore this to its fullest extent. After all SE can manufacture machineguns legally and if the PS90 is pulled from the market it will be due to the foolish once again writing letters to the BATFE Tech Branch.

The COMBINATION OF PARTS such as the P90 selector are required in order for the P90 to fire automatically. Without the P90 selector installed in the P90, the P90 is rendered to PS90 status when a PS90 selector is installed in the P90 - one pull one shot, SO, is it a machinegun, by definition? No, technically since it cannot be made to fire automatically without MODIFICATION.
 
#96 · (Edited)
Jim. No, you do not need the P90 selector switch to make the PS90 fire in auto mode. With an unlawful modification, you can make the PS90 fire automatically in the "1" position but will loose the Semi Auto action of the firearm.

The same can be done with the P90. With a lawful modification (it's a machine gun already), you can make the P90 fire automatically in the "1" position but will also loose the Semi Auto action of the firearm.

Both of these scenarios require a different modification to the firearm and has nothing to do with the selector switch as neither selector switch has been (to be) modified.

It may be one in a part or combination of parts, but so is a magazine. Unless the firearm can hold more that one round without a magazine, so in most cases a magazine facilitates the building of a machine gun and is a part of a combination of parts needed to build a machine gun. There is no listing of what a "combination of parts" is that I can find anywhere including in the NFA book.
 
#93 ·
Not really, no.
A P90 selector switch is necessary to give a PS90 select-fire ability, but a PS90 is quite capable of firing automatically without a P90 selector.
100% accurate. The three way selector allows the use to select which mode to fire in providing the firearm is designed to utilize all three positions. The PS90 due to the hammer pack is not designed to allow the utilization of all three positions. The third position is just a "dummy" position in the PS90.
 
#91 · (Edited)
Read and re-read, "The COMBINATION OF PARTS such as the P90 selector are required in order for the P90 to fire automatically."

And you are still incorrect. No P90 selector switch is required in order for the P90 to fire automatically. Without going into detail, I will say that the subject was already covered and mentioned in passing in posts 48 and 49.
 
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