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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
PMM SCAR KeyMod Rail Teaser.

Hey guys thought I would just post some images of the first rails off the mill. with some tech data.

Total Standoff height PMM KM = .200"
Factory 1913 Rail = .393"

Weight Per Each PMM KM rail =. 60 Oz (No hardware)
Factory 1913 Rail .65 +/- .02 Oz.(No Hardware)

6 Key Mod slots instead of 3, I designed them to be a little thicker then what is standard on most of the rail extension units to give the user 3 more usable KM slots.

ETA on release 2 weeks aprox. in Both Black and FDE.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello All, The PMM Website is currently down because of the Host SquareSpace, If you have a pending order it will still go out. I am awaiting my Registra Transfer as on now prior to launching the new store.

My apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. In the mean time if you need anything directly through me pleas E-mail me. I have all MY products in Stock and shipping daily.

The 10% sale is still Active and I can send invoice through Pay-Pal temporarily.

Thanks for your understanding.
~Jrod.
 

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You have multiple threads on this? Anyway, I think I posted elsewhere that I would LOVE this product if you would put two more keymod slots ahead for the receiver to the side of the gas block. That way I could mount a direct attach KM light mount on the rail without using up keymod rail space where I want to grip the fore end. it would also help block the gas block from burning things. This would allow me to put keymod panels along the sides for grip and heat protection.

Also, aesthetically the wavy look of the keymod rails does not look congruent with the lines of the rifle. I think I know what you are trying to achieve, finger grooves, but it just doesn't look right especially when you add a piece of standard picatinny next to it.

You incorporated my comments about the selector switch, I hope you will consider these comments as constructive. I'd like to buy these if they come out well. Good luck.


EDIT: Actually, 3 more keymod slots might be better than two.
 

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You have multiple threads on this? Anyway, I think I posted elsewhere that I would LOVE this product if you would put two more keymod slots ahead for the receiver to the side of the gas block. That way I could mount a direct attach KM light mount on the rail without using up keymod rail space where I want to grip the fore end. it would also help block the gas block from burning things. This would allow me to put keymod panels along the sides for grip and heat protection.

Also, aesthetically the wavy look of the keymod rails does not look congruent with the lines of the rifle. I think I know what you are trying to achieve, finger grooves, but it just doesn't look right especially when you add a piece of standard picatinny next to it.

You incorporated my comments about the selector switch, I hope you will consider these comments as constructive. I'd like to buy these if they come out well. Good luck.


EDIT: Actually, 3 more keymod slots might be better than two.

your dreams just may come true! there will be a version that is more squared off that will look more "OEM"

and there is already a longer version in the works exactly like you described. depending on how well the regular length rail do will dictate the speed at which the next version will be made!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
your dreams just may come true! there will be a version that is more squared off that will look more "OEM"

and there is already a longer version in the works exactly like you described. depending on how well the regular length rail do will dictate the speed at which the next version will be made!
that dream is a reality I'll post some pictures tonight!

Also.
As a way of saying thanks fr the web site issue, I am extending my Sale until Friday of this week, Please make sure you use the Code "BLACKOUT" (all one word during check o
 

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As promised, Personally I like the fillet units but hay what's the matter with having options!
View attachment 33703 View attachment 33704
Jarod,
Nice work, now if you could round the rear more like this example (Bottom). The reason is that if you wrap your hand around the fore-end the corner of the rail ends up digging into the palm of your hand..

In fact, there is NO reason to have the squared edges on the rail AT ALL. Since these are not picatinny rails you could bevel the sides down to the receiver and eliminate the square uncomfortable edges completely. The rail would then BLEND into the receiver. It would also feel integrated and slimmer.

This would also give you a significant advantage in feel over ANY other replacement rail.
Here:
Wood Table Metal

Slightly widen the rail and bevel the sides all the way to the receiver so they blend into the receiver rather than have square edges. This will make the rails feel integrated into the receiver and give a nice grip surface.

This is a good radius for corners if you cannot bevel the edges.
 

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Jarod,
Upon further reflection it might make sense to offer a dedicated left and right rail so that you could bevel and blend the top portion of the rail more gradually into the receiver.

I think using a bevel rather than a fillet will be more popular as it eliminates the squared edges. JMHO.
 

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Jarod,
Nice work, now if you could round the rear more like this example (Bottom). The reason is that if you wrap your hand around the fore-end the corner of the rail ends up digging into the palm of your hand..
​If the end of this rail is digging into your palm, you are grabbing the rifle by the gas block and i don't really suggest that

In fact, there is NO reason to have the squared edges on the rail AT ALL. Since these are not picatinny rails you could bevel the sides down to the receiver and eliminate the square uncomfortable edges completely. The rail would then BLEND into the receiver. It would also feel integrated and slimmer.
blending the edges on these would give you zero grip up front. also i don't think these pictures to the rail justice as to how slim they are. there are no sharp, uncomfortable edges on any of these rails, they are all beveled. honestly, in hand these feel amazing and really slim up the front of the gun.

This would also give you a significant advantage in feel over ANY other replacement rail.
Here:
View attachment 33710
Slightly widen the rail and bevel the sides all the way to the receiver so they blend into the receiver rather than have square edges. This will make the rails feel integrated into the receiver and give a nice grip surface.

This is a good radius for corners if you cannot bevel the edges.
View attachment 33711
I personally like the more square look as it flows just like the stock rails do but is 100% better functionally as there is nothing that will snag, its the same weight and far slimmer while still retaining the use of 6 keymod slots!
 

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I personally like the more square look as it flows just like the stock rails do but is 100% better functionally as there is nothing that will snag, its the same weight and far slimmer while still retaining the use of 6 keymod slots!
From what you said I'm not sure you picked up what I'm saying. I don't think I was very clear in my explanation so I'll try again. Forget about the second picture, I'm not talking about beveling the ends as much as I'm talking about the sides.

Here is a crude rendition. The grey bars represent bevels. Rather than squared edges my preference is that side of the rail are beveled to the receiver so they blend into the receiver rather than present a block of squared off aluminum protruding from the rail.

Metal


The idea is to provide a nice smooth transition from the rail to the receiver. You could also achieve this on the ends of the rail too. You can do this with a keymod because the keymod does not depend on the sides of the rail as a picatinny rail does.

EDIT: Replying to your suggestion that there will be nothing to grab on to, I totally disagree, and if I want to add a rail panel to the KM I can do so to increase grip. A beveled side rail will give me plenty to grab on to.

Also, the corner that digs into your palm happens at the rear of the rail not the front. I don't know how you would get the rail stuck into your palm at the front of the rail. I've been shooting my SCARs for several years, so I have a pretty good idea of where the ergonomic problems exist.

If you don't see the value of machining the rail with a beveled edge, just make the rail a little wider and I will machine a bevel into it for my rifles. Part of the value of the KM design is that it allows you to make a system that does not include protruding picatinny rails with square edges. That's why KM fore-ends like the BCM KMR are so comfortable. No lumpy rails.

Try making one the way I suggested and if you don't like it I'll shut up and make my own.

Sorry, but I get a little passionate about design. Carry on. Thanks.

BTW - I ordered a couple sets of selector switches today. I'll try them out and order more if they work out. I do love the rear QD mounts I bought awhile back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Jarod,
Nice work, now if you could round the rear more like this example (Bottom). The reason is that if you wrap your hand around the fore-end the corner of the rail ends up digging into the palm of your hand..

In fact, there is NO reason to have the squared edges on the rail AT ALL. Since these are not picatinny rails you could bevel the sides down to the receiver and eliminate the square uncomfortable edges completely. The rail would then BLEND into the receiver. It would also feel integrated and slimmer.

This would also give you a significant advantage in feel over ANY other replacement rail.
Here:
View attachment 33710
Slightly widen the rail and bevel the sides all the way to the receiver so they blend into the receiver rather than have square edges. This will make the rails feel integrated into the receiver and give a nice grip surface.

This is a good radius for corners if you cannot bevel the edges.
View attachment 33711
FN-SICK I think you are over analyzing this a tad, The PMM rails are so thin (.200" thick) and all have a Radi on them. Nothing will ever "dig" into your hand, It's Physically impossible given the rest of the structure of the SCAR, In the the event you are wrapping your hand around the front you will have more of an issue dealing with the lower 1913 (Drawing a replacement KeyMod Panel for that now) and the upper digging into your hand if they don't have covers.

The image you are showing has a Chamfer on it but this is a by product of the 45* angle of the 1913 Rail and makes sense becuse they need the 45* to lock parts on to. The 1913 rails stand .375" off the upper and have hard edges due to the nature of the 1913 rail system anyways, Thus the ladder system on them.

Based on my feel of fitment adding a Radi on the end of the rail closest to the Barrel locking bolts only would add more weight and is not going to hep the ergonomics of the rail,and from what I can tell of those rails that is simply just a QD mounting point no? Which is a provisional option I will make shortly that you can mount in any KM slot( See pictures below)

Regarding the modified image that you added the extended chamfer to, all I see is more weight with no real ERGO gains, Try to remember the KM rails I have made are on .200" thick!

I could have made them much thinner.080" is the minimum Viltor call out on their prints, but this would eliminate the use of the additional 3 Key Mod Slots in my rails.

Either way I appreciate the feed back, and I am 100% sure once you had one of my test rifles in hand with either iteration of the PMM KM rails you will see my points.

~Jrod.

Gen 1 PMM QD socket (Oval Rear),It lock in on Kn slot and is a but higher then the stadard options out there which still can be used on the PMM rail but they take ou three KM slots as to 1 .
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PMM QD socket(Square Rear) I will make this one most likely.
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