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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

From the article:

"The raid target, Nevada-based Polymer80, is suspected of illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms, failing to pay taxes, shipping guns across state lines and failing to conduct background investigations, according to an application for a search warrant unsealed Thursday after the raid took place.
The probe focuses on Polymer80’s “Buy Build Shoot Kit,” which includes the parts to build a “ghost” handgun. The kit, which Polymer80 sells online, meets the definition of a firearm, ATF investigators determined according to the warrant application. That means it would have to be stamped with a serial number and couldn’t be sold to consumers who haven’t first passed a background check."

Bad juju.
 

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I am not familiar with their Guns To Go. If this was going to be wide spread, other manufacturers of 80% would have been hit by the ATF as well.

There has to be something about their kits that are not legal and I suspect its the frame......
 

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A very sad day for gun owners; especially those who trust it's citizens but has a lack of confidence and trust in the government to say the least. If the government wasn't so sleazy, US Citizens wouldn't have to go to places like this for their firearms & parts. I'll tell you our American Revolutionary War started with a lot less infringement than us Americans are dealing with now. We need to bring back the days when the government feared the people; not the other way around.
 

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The ATF previously gave Polymer80 permission to sell unfinished receivers. But the Buy Build Shoot Kits, which are advertised as having “all the necessary components to build a complete…pistol” weren’t submitted to the agency for approval, according to the application for the search warrant. These kits can be “assembled into fully functional firearms in a matter of minutes,” the warrant application says.

They failed to get prior approval from the ATF to sell these complete kits.

I'm sure there is more to the story and eventually it will all come out.

Nobody was arrested or hauled away.

I agree the ATF is an agency gone wild and this could be a prelude to them outlawing all manner of Ghost Guns. Hell, if they can reclassify a bump stock, a piece of plastic, as a machine gun (still in the courts for a determination if the ATF had the authority to do this reclassification), they can reclassify a fart as a bomb.

80% kits
80% lowers
Bump Stocks
Binary Triggers

And a host of other items will probably be targeted, making a law abiding individual a felon by a stroke of a pen and doing absolutely NOTHING to prevent any crime what so ever. Legal one second and illegal the next second.
 

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And so it begins, the Biden/BATFE persecution of firearms manufacturers and 'Merican citizens. Get the women, children & dogs inside the house quick...
thats strange since Biden hasn't officially taken over the office yet or sworn in. Never seen an agency answer to a "President Elect" before things become official. this is how conspiracy theories get started.
 

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thats strange since Biden hasn't officially taken over the office yet or sworn in. Never seen an agency answer to a "President Elect" before things become official. this is how conspiracy theories get started.
Wow, Really? A conspiracy theory? It's called the SWAMP and time will tell very quickly me thinks...
 

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It’s not so much that Biden will be inaugurated and agencies are anticipating his directions as the fact that Trump stopped leading most of the executive branch on November 3 and is now focused entirely on staying president by any means necessary. There’s a power vacuum and the agencies in the executive branch are free to act independently.
He was never a true friend to the 2A. He just said that to gain votes.


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It’s not so much that Biden will be inaugurated and agencies are anticipating his directions as the fact that Trump stopped leading most of the executive branch on November 3 and is now focused entirely on staying president by any means necessary. There’s a power vacuum and the agencies in the executive branch are free to act independently.
He was never a true friend to the 2A. He just said that to gain votes.


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The SWAMP is a living, breather creature that just keeps consuming and answers to no one...
 

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The ATF previously gave Polymer80 permission to sell unfinished receivers. But the Buy Build Shoot Kits, which are advertised as having “all the necessary components to build a complete…pistol” weren’t submitted to the agency for approval, according to the application for the search warrant. These kits can be “assembled into fully functional firearms in a matter of minutes,” the warrant application says.

I'm sure there is more to the story and eventually it will all come out.
Okay, so instead they sell the receiver as one item you put in your cart, then all the other pieces to finish the gun in another item you put in your cart, then you check out and have the whole kit and caboodle sent to you and you're okay then, versus buying one item with all the parts together in one package? Really, that's what this is all about? I DON'T THINK SO!

What this is is the government changing the rules in the middle of the game, as usual. Instead of a dizzying array of options, enough to dissuade most people from building a kit gun, the manufacturer came up with a solution to the problem so the average man on the street can get the right mix of parts, finish the receiver himself (most assuredly in more than just a "a matter of minutes") and THAT is what the government doesn't like. Too many people making their own guns for them to keep track of and they don't like it! It's ALWAYS about CONTROL with these asshats.

And yes, there's ALWAYS more to the story.
 

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And here's more. Plus ATF is asking for customer information too:

 

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Okay, so instead they sell the receiver as one item you put in your cart, then all the other pieces to finish the gun in another item you put in your cart, then you check out and have the whole kit and caboodle sent to you and you're okay then, versus buying one item with all the parts together in one package? Really, that's what this is all about? I DON'T THINK SO!

What this is is the government changing the rules in the middle of the game, as usual. Instead of a dizzying array of options, enough to dissuade most people from building a kit gun, the manufacturer came up with a solution to the problem so the average man on the street can get the right mix of parts, finish the receiver himself (most assuredly in more than just a "a matter of minutes") and THAT is what the government doesn't like. Too many people making their own guns for them to keep track of and they don't like it! It's ALWAYS about CONTROL with these asshats.

And yes, there's ALWAYS more to the story.
This does not surprise me. If you look at AR15 build kits, none of them have the lower, not even the 80% lowers.

The ATF has determined that these kits fit the definition of a firearm. This is not new news.

If you sell an AR15 with the lower, it is a firearm, whether assembled or not.

If you sell an AR15 kit without the lower, it is not a firearm. It should not even be called an AR15 kit.

If you sell an AR15 kit with an 80% lower, and all the tools to make the 80% a lower, it is considered a firearm because it is readily assembled and restorable, regardless if machining is required. And especially if the 80% contains the jigs, drill bit, and end mill.

I don't like it but its the law. This is a clear example of how the delegation of authority to a federal agency to write regulations with the weight of law is out of control. And to top it off, the courts defer to the agency hiding behind the "Chevron" rule.

Polymer80 was selling these kits with everything you needed to build a firearm, all the pistol parts, the jig, the drill bit, the end mill, and the instructions.

So yes, sell one or the other, but what Polymer80 appears to have done was sell a readily restorable firearm. That is against the law.

This has nothing to do with 80% right now. That will come later, I am positive. And that I will fight tooth and nail as the block of aluminum or pistol frame 80% IS NOT A FIREARM.

If Polymer80 sent this kit to the FTB for determination, something I also despise but is the law, the FTB would have said no.

And Polymer80 was stupid enough to give the kit a name that said "here is a kit that if assembled, is a restorable pistol, wink wink".

And if the DEA brought down a drug selling outlet, they would seize and demand the customer list as well.

Polymer80 pushed the line and got slapped down. They are stupid for even trying it and their stupidity brought 80% frames and lowers to the top of the news cycle again. A Darwin award to Polymer80.
 
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