FN Herstal Firearms banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay. So I got my hands on the KRG "SCAR Long Range Stock". The company (not to be confused with KDG) says they offer a hinged and non-hinged version. I was only able to find the non-hinged.

138706

138707


There has been a lot of talk on the forum about the negatives of using an aluminum after market stock on a 17s. In particular the KDG ACR clone. The two biggest negatives seem to be additional felt recoil and the backing-out/canting the receiver screws that can damage the receiver after extended use.

The "fix" for this seems to be adding additional buffer, such as a larger pad, to help mitigate the problem. But many are of the opinion that FN specifically designed a polymer back-plate to improve felt recoil and that you should keep the OEM stock if you want your rifle to maintain reliably. I respect that opinion. My issue is that my new optic has a narrow eyebox (Nightforce NX8 1-8 F1) and really needs a more precise cheek riser and length of pull than the OEM to get a good sight picture. My questions are:

1. Does the additional buffer solve the issue?
2. Does anyone else have experience with this stock? If so, any issues?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Okay. So I got my hands on the KRG "SCAR Long Range Stock". The company (not to be confused with KDG) says they offer a hinged and non-hinged version. I was only able to find the non-hinged.

View attachment 138706
View attachment 138707

There has been a lot of talk on the forum about the negatives of using an aluminum after market stock on a 17s. In particular the KDG ACR clone. The two biggest negatives seem to be additional felt recoil and the backing-out/canting the receiver screws that can damage the receiver after extended use.

The "fix" for this seems to be adding additional buffer, such as a larger pad, to help mitigate the problem. But many are of the opinion that FN specifically designed a polymer back-plate to improve felt recoil and that you should keep the OEM stock if you want your rifle to maintain reliably. I respect that opinion. My issue is that my new optic has a narrow eyebox (Nightforce NX8 1-8 F1) and really needs a more precise cheek riser and length of pull than the OEM to get a good sight picture. My questions are:

1. Does the additional buffer solve the issue?
2. Does anyone else have experience with this stock? If so, any issues?

Thanks.
I've been running a Mototech rubber recoil buffer and a downsized gas jet on my 17S SBR with the KDG stock for several thousand rounds. Nothing "canted" on my SCAR except my wallet. You'll find just as many people who swear by that setup as you will those that don't. Truth be known, I don't really think that FN (or any other manufacturer for that matter) gets that far into the weeds trying to "tune" the harmonics. I've got more faith in real world users/researchers/manufacturers like Eddie at Mototech and Jarod at PMM to know what makes a SCAR run without issue. I haven't heard Jarod say anything one way or the other about the KDG stock. So until I do, I'll consider the "anti-KDG'ers" to be just haters and poors...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,025 Posts
A quick check of KRG's website shows the folding version as in-stock!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,025 Posts
Still says "Out of Stock" for me. I contacted them and they said they have no idea when they will be available.
I stand corrected, not paying attention I clicked on the ACR folding stock...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoax001

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
MotoTech buffer and gas tune.

Jarod has stated over and over again. Stick to OEM stock designs. He also mentions this in his gas system explanation video. Here...go to minute 19 mark...but I HIGHLY suggest all to just watch it all:

(897) PMM Address the SCAR 17 & 20 gas system that operates it. - YouTube

I recommend against using an aluminum hinged aftermarket stock, especially without a HDD or MotoTech buffer....when using a .308/6.5 based SCAR...the SCAR 16 isn't as bad but still wouldn't rock an aftermarket stock unless it had a polymer hinge design as the OEM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
I understand why some people such as HOAX001 have the desire to change their stock for specific applications. However, I find a way to make my OEM stocks work and work well. I'm hard on it, its had thousands of rounds through it with no issue, I hit what I'm aiming at, the gun does what I want it to do every time without question. I also don't have anxiety that something might break.

I never understood why the stock is such a contention of hate for some owners of SCAR systems or it's just the cool thing to do because everybody else does it. Instead of paying a butt load of money on gas jet(s) (the maintenance of getting them in & out), the rubber buffer system(s) and the ridiculous price of some of the aftermarket stocks alone, just buy an extra OEM SCAR stock if you fear it's weak or will break. The OEM SCAR stock can be had for a relatively cheap price and you save quite a bit of money that you can use elsewhere on items that are definitely worth buying (e.g., ammo, triggers, spare OEM components, etc.). I guess I'd rather have my $3,000 dollar rifles operate as intended. If there is even a slight chance that a upgraded stock system can destroy a serialized part of my SCAR, in addition to no warranty coverage; you can count me out right away! Is the OEM SCAR stock perfect? No, but there is no perfect stock, because there is no perfect anything!

I'm not saying there is no place for an aftermarket stock in rare circumstance but I think the cure is much worse than the disease. HMMM, why does that sound so familiar?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
I understand why some people such as HOAX001 have the desire to change their stock for specific applications. However, I find a way to make my OEM stocks work and work well. I'm hard on it, its had thousands of rounds through it with no issue, I hit what I'm aiming at, the gun does what I want it to do every time without question. I also don't have anxiety that something might break.

I never understood why the stock is such a contention of hate for some owners of SCAR systems or it's just the cool thing to do because everybody else does it. Instead of paying a butt load of money on gas jet(s) (the maintenance of getting them in & out), the rubber buffer system(s) and the ridiculous price of some of the aftermarket stocks alone, just buy an extra OEM SCAR stock if you fear it's weak or will break. The OEM SCAR stock can be had for a relatively cheap price and you save quite a bit of money that you can use elsewhere on items that are definitely worth buying (e.g., ammo, triggers, spare OEM components, etc.). I guess I'd rather have my $3,000 dollar rifles operate as intended. If there is even a slight chance that a upgraded stock system can destroy a serialized part of my SCAR, in addition to no warranty coverage; you can count me out right away! Is the OEM SCAR stock perfect? No, but there is no perfect stock, because there is no perfect anything!

I'm not saying there is no place for an aftermarket stock in rare circumstance but I think the cure is much worse than the disease. HMMM, why does that sound so familiar?
Regarding the above, some prices and advantages of the aftermarket KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit
Gas jets - $8.00 each from PMM & should be removed and cleaned each time the gas system is serviced anyway.
Rubber clad recoil buffer - $29.95 each from Mototech & even cheaper by taking inner tube rubber & Gorilla gluing it to the existing stock buffer.
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit -$231.31 (Battle Hawk Armory)
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit weighs approximately 1/4 lbs. less than the SCAR factory UGG Boot
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit is unquestionably more robust in construction that the SCAR UGG Boot (especially in the adapter bracket/hinge area. The adapter is manufactured of 6061-T6 aluminum).
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit comes with an ambi QD cup and a watertight CR123 battery compartment.
For many vain SCAR owners, the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit just LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than the SCAR factory UGG Boot. Who really wants a major part of their $3000+ rifle referred to as the 2nd (1st?) ugliest footware ever invented by mankind (Crocs #1 or #2?).
A new/replacement SCAR factory UGG Boot - $189.00 (Midwest Gun Works) when they aren't perpetually sold out (could that be because of their high failure rate?).

So, all in all, replacing the ugerly SCAR factory UGG Boot with the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit IS NOT A BUTT LOAD OF MONEY more. You're going to (or should) tinker with the gas jets to "tune" your particular SCAR, as SCAR's are notoriously over-gassed, he rubber recoil buffer isn't a bad option to install no matter which stock you end up using (the over-gassing issue again), the UGG Boot weighs more, the UGG Boot construction is obviously less "robust", you have to purchase an aftermarket QD sling adapter for the UGG Boot if you want to go that route and finally, looks are forever, ugerly is ugerly and the UGG Boot is just plain BUTT UGERLY!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Regarding the above, some prices and advantages of the aftermarket KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit
Gas jets - $8.00 each from PMM & should be removed and cleaned each time the gas system is serviced anyway.
Rubber clad recoil buffer - $29.95 each from Mototech & even cheaper by taking inner tube rubber & Gorilla gluing it to the existing stock buffer.
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit -$231.31 (Battle Hawk Armory)
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit weighs approximately 1/4 lbs. less than the SCAR factory UGG Boot
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit is unquestionably more robust in construction that the SCAR UGG Boot (especially in the adapter bracket/hinge area. The adapter is manufactured of 6061-T6 aluminum).
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit comes with an ambi QD cup and a watertight CR123 battery compartment.
For many vain SCAR owners, the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit just LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than the SCAR factory UGG Boot. Who really wants a major part of their $3000+ rifle referred to as the 2nd (1st?) ugliest footware ever invented by mankind (Crocs #1 or #2?).
A new/replacement SCAR factory UGG Boot - $189.00 (Midwest Gun Works) when they aren't perpetually sold out (could that be because of their high failure rate?).

So, all in all, replacing the ugerly SCAR factory UGG Boot with the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit IS NOT A BUTT LOAD OF MONEY more. You're going to (or should) tinker with the gas jets to "tune" your particular SCAR, as SCAR's are notoriously over-gassed, he rubber recoil buffer isn't a bad option to install no matter which stock you end up using (the over-gassing issue again), the UGG Boot weighs more, the UGG Boot construction is obviously less "robust", you have to purchase an aftermarket QD sling adapter for the UGG Boot if you want to go that route and finally, looks are forever, ugerly is ugerly and the UGG Boot is just plain BUTT UGERLY!!!
Regarding the above, some prices and advantages of the aftermarket KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit
Gas jets - $8.00 each from PMM & should be removed and cleaned each time the gas system is serviced anyway.
Rubber clad recoil buffer - $29.95 each from Mototech & even cheaper by taking inner tube rubber & Gorilla gluing it to the existing stock buffer.
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit -$231.31 (Battle Hawk Armory)
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit weighs approximately 1/4 lbs. less than the SCAR factory UGG Boot
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit is unquestionably more robust in construction that the SCAR UGG Boot (especially in the adapter bracket/hinge area. The adapter is manufactured of 6061-T6 aluminum).
KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit comes with an ambi QD cup and a watertight CR123 battery compartment.
For many vain SCAR owners, the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit just LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than the SCAR factory UGG Boot. Who really wants a major part of their $3000+ rifle referred to as the 2nd (1st?) ugliest footware ever invented by mankind (Crocs #1 or #2?).
A new/replacement SCAR factory UGG Boot - $189.00 (Midwest Gun Works) when they aren't perpetually sold out (could that be because of their high failure rate?).

So, all in all, replacing the ugerly SCAR factory UGG Boot with the KDG SCAR Adaptable Stock Kit IS NOT A BUTT LOAD OF MONEY more. You're going to (or should) tinker with the gas jets to "tune" your particular SCAR, as SCAR's are notoriously over-gassed, he rubber recoil buffer isn't a bad option to install no matter which stock you end up using (the over-gassing issue again), the UGG Boot weighs more, the UGG Boot construction is obviously less "robust", you have to purchase an aftermarket QD sling adapter for the UGG Boot if you want to go that route and finally, looks are forever, ugerly is ugerly and the UGG Boot is just plain BUTT UGERLY!!!
$189 is definitely cheaper when you look at the complications happening to the receivers (most of the time are always in stock when I look). I don't have a dog in the fight either way but for a 3K rifle, I won't spend extra money to potentially damage my rifle, especially if you get one simple thing wrong (e.g., the wrong composition material buffer or hinge, wrong gas jet, etc.). I'm not trying to argue and I agree aesthetically the KDG stock is more pleasing to look at but... I don't shoot or trust weapons that just have a pretty factor lol. I trust a weapon system that works and works reliably without wondering if down the road it'll fail, just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
$189 is definitely cheaper when you look at the complications happening to the receivers (most of the time are always in stock when I look). I don't have a dog in the fight either way but for a 3K rifle, I won't spend extra money to potentially damage my rifle, especially if you get one simple thing wrong (e.g., the wrong composition material buffer or hinge, wrong gas jet, etc.). I'm not trying to argue and I agree aesthetically the KDG stock is more pleasing to look at but... I don't shoot or trust weapons that just have a pretty factor lol. I trust a weapon system that works and works reliably without wondering if down the road it'll fail, just my 2 cents.
Understood, but how many "complications" have there really been proven to be directly related to the KDG SCAR stock? I've only heard anecdotal evidence of the perceived problems with the KDG SCAR stock, never anybody who has actually come out and said "THAT STOCK RUINED MY SCAR". If so, then I missed it.

Why not blame the KDG SCAR stock then for the recent spate of disintegrating bolts, "burred" bolt assemblies or even FN's inability to produce a consistant shade of FDE? As i've said previously, I personally don't think that the pointy heads at FN ever even considered the possibility of "out of control" "killer" harmonics until long after the firearm was issued and reports from the field started dribbling in speculating about mysteriously "disintegrating" optics. The entire justification by FN for using a majority of aluminum and polymer parts in the design and manufacture of the SCAR platform was strictly to shave as much weight as possible from their new Wundergun, especially in the typically heavy .308/7.62 rifle.

Finally, gas jets keep being mentioned as some big bug-a-boo and espensive problem to get right. First, ALL 17S SCARS have been proven to be substantially overgassed when they roll out the factory door and the gas jets are the absolute first thing that should be corrected. Depending on whether the firearm is being fired unsuppressed or suppressed, you can almost ALWAYS reduce the gas jet size by a factor of 2 and sometimes even 3 on a SCAR 17S. A bone stock 17S with a 16" barrel comes from the FN factory with a 1.45mm gas jet (per PMM). That 1.45mm gas jet can be reduced to at least 1.35mm and probably even lower depending on theparticular firearm, the barrel length, the ammunition being used and whether it's being fired silenced or not. It's an easy and fairly quick modification to make with a total cost of maybe $30 for 3 different jets of decreasing size plus postage. If you can do a detailed cleaning of your SCAR, you can (and should be able to) "tune" the gas jets too.

So, each to his own. There are numerous mods that can be done to the SCAR to make it a more dependable rifle, but always remember: "FN DID NOT CREATE THE PERFECT FIREARM" (only Samuel Colt & John Browning did that)!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Hey archmark, your posts convinced me to check into buying a KDG stock. I'd love to save 1/4 lb, but it looks like it's only 1.75 oz. KDG shows 17.75 oz for theirs and I weighed my spare OE one and got 19.5 oz. I agree that the ACR looks better, but now I'm not sure I'd switch for less than a 2 oz savings. Are my numbers off?

Also, I wonder if anyone has adapted a KDG stock to use the factory polymer hinge plate. That'd be ideal IMHO. That might be a fun project!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Hey archmark, your posts convinced me to check into buying a KDG stock. I'd love to save 1/4 lb, but it looks like it's only 1.75 oz. KDG shows 17.75 oz for theirs and I weighed my spare OE one and got 19.5 oz. I agree that the ACR looks better, but now I'm not sure I'd switch for less than a 2 oz savings. Are my numbers off?

Also, I wonder if anyone has adapted a KDG stock to use the factory polymer hinge plate. That'd be ideal IMHO. That might be a fun project!
I was quoting the 1/4 lb. figure from the KDG website(?). It's possible that one or the other has increased in weight. Buy the Mototech rubber buffer or make your own from some inner tube rubber & Gorilla glue. That's pretty much what Mototech's does I'm thinking. They can buy them (part number F144440010) by the truckload from Midwest Gun Works for $5 and with an inner tube, an exacto knife & glue, probably turning out 50 a night while watching "Humping With The Kardashians" on the boob tube...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Hey archmark, your posts convinced me to check into buying a KDG stock. I'd love to save 1/4 lb, but it looks like it's only 1.75 oz. KDG shows 17.75 oz for theirs and I weighed my spare OE one and got 19.5 oz. I agree that the ACR looks better, but now I'm not sure I'd switch for less than a 2 oz savings. Are my numbers off?

Also, I wonder if anyone has adapted a KDG stock to use the factory polymer hinge plate. That'd be ideal IMHO. That might be a fun project!
Besides, UGGerly is still UGGerly and money is no object to get rid of UGGerly!!!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,696 Posts
I always find it amusing when a battlefield designed rifle winds up in the hands of civilians and the complaints start flowing about this and that and something else.

It a freaking rifle designed for battlefield conditions and not the ***** foot around civilian market. The fact that FN released this rifle in a semi only mode for civilian use was a miracle unto itself.

Complain about the finish multi color....who the hell cares. I have yet to see camouflage in a single color.

Complain about the gas jet....well its set for use with NATO ammo, not a single high end ammo, but multi ammo manufactured by multiple NATO countries. Battlefield ammo in a battlefield rifle.

Oh my suppressor causes overgassing......the semi auto made SCAR is not manufactured to utilize a suppressor. The battlefield SCAR uses a suppressor not available to civilians so don't cry when your civilian suppressor does not work.

More civilians screw up a perfectly capable military rifle by placing this and that on it and replacing this and that ad nauseum to make it a one of a kind beauty queen, then complain when the 29 cent scope falls apart because it can't take the shock of the battlefield rifle.

If you want a precision long range rifle that needs to have $50000 worth of pretty crap on it, stay away from the SCAR. If you want a battlefield rifle designed for use in a battlefield setting, buy a SCAR.

Every military rifle from the 30 06 to the SCAR has been moaned and groaned to death by civilians. This is the same trash the M14 went through. The same crying from civilians that the M1 went through.

Oh my.....I wish it could fly me around the world like a magic wand.

I have 2 and I am happy as a flea on a hound dog because I treat them like they were meant to be treated. It does not need a pretty pink dress or a shiny new nickles worth of whatever.

Take it out of the box and shoot it. It works. Slam it into the ground and shoot it, it works. Shoot 5000 rounds through it without cleaning it, it works. Drown it, it works. Feed it the crappiest NATO ammo, it works. Piss on it for all I care, it works.

Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
I always find it amusing when a battlefield designed rifle winds up in the hands of civilians and the complaints start flowing about this and that and something else.

It a freaking rifle designed for battlefield conditions and not the * foot around civilian market. The fact that FN released this rifle in a semi only mode for civilian use was a miracle unto itself.

Complain about the finish multi color....who the hell cares. I have yet to see camouflage in a single color.

Complain about the gas jet....well its set for use with NATO ammo, not a single high end ammo, but multi ammo manufactured by multiple NATO countries. Battlefield ammo in a battlefield rifle.

Oh my suppressor causes overgassing......the semi auto made SCAR is not manufactured to utilize a suppressor. The battlefield SCAR uses a suppressor not available to civilians so don't cry when your civilian suppressor does not work.

More civilians screw up a perfectly capable military rifle by placing this and that on it and replacing this and that ad nauseum to make it a one of a kind beauty queen, then complain when the 29 cent scope falls apart because it can't take the shock of the battlefield rifle.

If you want a precision long range rifle that needs to have $50000 worth of pretty crap on it, stay away from the SCAR. If you want a battlefield rifle designed for use in a battlefield setting, buy a SCAR.

Every military rifle from the 30 06 to the SCAR has been moaned and groaned to death by civilians. This is the same trash the M14 went through. The same crying from civilians that the M1 went through.

Oh my.....I wish it could fly me around the world like a magic wand.

I have 2 and I am happy as a flea on a hound dog because I treat them like they were meant to be treated. It does not need a pretty pink dress or a shiny new nickles worth of whatever.

Take it out of the box and shoot it. It works. Slam it into the ground and shoot it, it works. Shoot 5000 rounds through it without cleaning it, it works. Drown it, it works. Feed it the crappiest NATO ammo, it works. Piss on it for all I care, it works.

Just my 2 cents.
All that still doesn't make up for that UGGerly Boot stock!!!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,696 Posts
That ugly boot stock is meant to collapse when you plant the butt of the rifle on the ground as you are on your way to the prone position and about to kiss that unweilding ground saving your nose bone from splintering and shooting its shards into your brain killing you.

Its ugly for a reason.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top