[HK SD9 Tactical]

Need help with this one. I have a bunch of Lake City SS109 bullets (62 grain) that I want to use for reloading for the Five-seveN and the PS90. I would like to drop the bullet weight from 62 grains down to about 33 to 40 grains.

Based on the construction of the bullet, the lower half of the core of the bullet is filled with lead. I want to remove the lead to drop the weight and replace it with something else, a very light material - any suggestions?

Also, to remove the lead from the bullet I have read that some people drill the lead out. To me this seems like a long process especially when I have so many bullets to do. So I am thinking that I can use a propane tourch or some other means of heating the bullet lead so that it can be tapped out in liquid form.

As I am NOT a ballistics expert, if I replace the lead with a lighter material, how will this affect the properties of the bullet flight. Also, will heating the bullet to melt the lead cause any adverse changes in the metallergic properties of the copper bullet itself?

Or is it just best that I keep the 62 grain bullet in tact and use it only in the PS90 as a subsonic round?

Or is this the wrong place to discuss this. If so, how about some links?

Thanks

@ Shipwreck - Maybe we can start a new forum for reloaders and reloading information instead of just general 5.7 X 28 mm ammo topics. What do you think?

 

[ShipWreck]

Re: RELOADERS - Best way to modify SS109 Bullet for Five-sev

@ Shipwreck - Maybe we can start a new forum for reloaders and reloading information instead of just general 5.7 X 28 mm ammo topics. What do you think?

Well, that's kinda what this area is for. As there isn't much traffic in this section anyway. It was made for general ballistic info and for reloading info on the round. There isn't much reloading talk going on. But if things pick up, we'll reevaluate it.

WIldeye111 is a reloader here. I'll PM him and ask him to look at your post.

 

[Promoted Pawn]

Wildeye puts his in a hight temp oven to melt out the lead (he has a special bullet holder to keep them upright) and then fills the cavity with polymer. Last I heard he was experimenting with various kinds of polymer.

Be aware that having such ammo in a pistol is illegal in many states.

 

[grendelbane]

"Polymer" covers a lot of territory. I have considered mixing atomized aluminium with epoxy, but it sounds like a lot of trouble.

Have also read at least one suggestion favoring toothpaste! I am not too sure about that.

I just wish some one would offer a clone of the SS192/195 bullet.

 

[abpt1]

Wildeye puts his in a hight temp oven to melt out the lead (he has a special bullet holder to keep them upright) and then fills the cavity with polymer. Last I heard he was experimenting with various kinds of polymer.

Be aware that having such ammo in a pistol is illegal in many states.

Yah i say buy from Wildeye hes a good guy.......

Be aware that having such ammo in a pistol is illegal in many states
+1
like all of them

 

[JE223]

I've had the same trouble with the Hornady 85gr XTP (0.311" diameter). In order to maximize the effectiveness of a .32ACP, I've found it beneficial to cut the 85gr bullet down to 71gr and load it as hot as I safely can. Here is my method for grinding the base of the bullet down on a sander :http://www.brassfetcher.com/32acpXTPModificationGuide.html

Hope this helps.

JE223

 

[wildeye111]

Thanks for the kudos abpt1- much appreciated-

I havn't forgot about our partnership Promoted Pawn- I will be intouch.

Lately I have been spread WAY TO THIN on time- mainly due to the birth of my 2nd child last month and having a few minor medical problems.

So, HK SD9 Tactical and anyone else- here is a link
http://www.armslocker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28977&page=10&pp=10
to another forum that has all of my details about when I had first started the SS109 conversion- my 1st post is on page 10 and till the end of the topic-
Hope this helps, feel free to PM me for any other questions or concerns-

ALSO, YES the use of ammo with a pistol that can penetrate body armor is illegal is certain states- check this link http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/
to verify this for your state- the next one to come out is the 27thedition and so on.....

 

[Poseidon5]

ha ha, i love PA's law on AP ammo. you can have it, but its illegal to use it if your commiting a crime. um.... ok? lol who the hell thought that one up?

 

[Reaper]

"Polymer" covers a lot of territory. I have considered mixing atomized aluminium with epoxy, but it sounds like a lot of trouble.

You know, that aluminium is often used to boost the power of explosives? :roll:

If you do that, and the aluminium powder in the epoxy gets ignited, the heat produced could be more than high enough to melt your FiveSeven. Furthermore, the Boost given to the Explosion of the gunpowder could result in way too high pressure, and blow up your gun, and if you are unlucky, it could blow off your hand too. :evil:

I would not try that at all. Oh, and a warning for all the kids out there:

If you encounter burning Aluminium, never, really never try to use water to stop the fire. Burning Aluminium will use the water as a source for oxygen, and burn even more hot, and faster.

 

[Promoted Pawn]

Be aware that having such ammo in a pistol is illegal in many states
+1
like all of them

not in ours! as of 2005 anyway. Let me know if you have read otherwise.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Not in Florida either, because it has to have a truncated cone to be considered AP.

 

[abpt1]

Certain Bullets prohibited while committing a crime...
6121 (a)-(d) :-D thats what i found......

 

[abpt1]

"Polymer" covers a lot of territory. I have considered mixing atomized aluminium with epoxy, but it sounds like a lot of trouble.

You know, that aluminium is often used to boost the power of explosives? :roll:

If you do that, and the aluminium powder in the epoxy gets ignited, the heat produced could be more than high enough to melt your FiveSeven. Furthermore, the Boost given to the Explosion of the gunpowder could result in way too high pressure, and blow up your gun, and if you are unlucky, it could blow off your hand too. :evil:

I would not try that at all. Oh, and a warning for all the kids out there:

If you encounter burning Aluminium, never, really never try to use water to stop the fire. Burning Aluminium will use the water as a source for oxygen, and burn even more hot, and faster.

+1
please film it if you decide to anyway..... i love to watch vids like that

 

[grendelbane]

You know, that aluminium is often used to boost the power of explosives?

Yes, I am aware of that. I am also aware that the core of the SS192/195 bullets is aluminum. I have not seen one detonate, or ignite, yet!

The source of aluminum I am going to use is probably better described as mostly aluminum oxide, with a small kernel of actual aluminum. Encased within the epoxy, there is no oxygen present. While it may not make a good projectile, it will certainly not be dangerous. (Other than in the conventional terminal ballistic sense of dangerous).

I'll try and get this done by this weekend. Unfortunately, I have to work tomorrow. Also, I will have to use 55 grain FMJ, as I have no M855 bullets right now. The aluminum situation will be the same, as both bullets are open base. If you do not see me posting next week, you will know that the aluminum core bullets do indeed raise pressures to catastrophic levels. I do not believe that this will be the case. :lol:

 

[Reaper]

The core being Aluminium is no problem, as long as the base of the bullet is either jacketed or sealed with lead.

I also would not try Aluminium Oxyde, as this contains even more oxygen.

The best way to do what you want, is to use pure epoxy, or anything that is not sensitive to excessive heat.

 

[wildeye111]

Edited: removed the previous material details- Sorry, per the patent laws I can't disclose my process/materials until the patent is granted-

Just remember you can't sell these with out a Type 06 FFL "Manufacture of Ammunition for Firearms" - by the 68' GCA law/BATF influence the modification of a projectile does constitue "manufacture"- the sale of these with out a license is an NFA violation! - you can make these for yourself but not for sale.

FN has the European patent on the SS109 - Lake City Arsenal Plant has the rights to make them- I filed/applied for a U.S. patent for the same bullet design (copper jacket and a steel jacket-steel tip projectile- and the use of all types of epoxies/polymers for the core)

Enjoy.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Edited: removed material info.



Just remember you can't sell these with out a Type 06 FFL "Manufacture of Ammunition for Firearms" - by the 68' GCA law/BATF influence the modification of a projectile does constitue "manufacture"- the sale of these with out a license is an NFA violation! - you can make these for yourself but not for sale.

FN has the European patent on the SS109 - Lake City Arsenal Plant has the rights to make them- I filed/applied for a U.S. patent for the same bullet design (copper jacket and a steel jacket-steel tip projectile- and the use of all types of epoxies/polymers for the core)

Enjoy.

Dude:

Thanks for the information. Don't worry, I know that I need an 06FFL to produce ammunition and sell to others. This is for my own personal use. I would be unable to get an 06 in my county anyways because the County PaPa's only allow ammo reloading in a 'industrial or manafacturing" plated area and not in your home (residential). Now I can see that if your going to reload one million rounds but for just a couple of thousand of rounds, I think that its wrong.

Oh well, County PaPa's say no so the ATF says no. One more given right taken away from the average person.

I swear, if you had to go through all the hassels of getting a drivers licence that you have to to get an FFL, only a handful of people would have drivers licenses. Hey, maybe not such a bad idea.... :-D

 

[grendelbane]

Weekend Update. I easily melted the lead cores out of some M-193 55 grain bullets. Then, it was a simple matter to fill them with powdered aluminum, and to plug the hole in the base with a mixture of epoxy and powdered aluminum. A citric acid bath cleaned the jackets up enough that a good tumbling had them almost looking like new.

I have only fired one, due to time constraints. As predicted, no problems. I used a very mild powder charge, and no pressure signs whatsoever were seen.

They came out a little light, at 20 grains. Kind of tedious to make, and I am not sure that I am going to experiment with them very much. However, I did want to demonstrate the feasibility of this approach.

More test results later.

 

[grendelbane]

I tried another aluminum powder/epoxy core M-193 today. Can you say 2230 FPS? I knew you could!

Going into water, the bullet held together, which kind of amazed me. At 20 grains, its not heavy enough to provide good penetration, but did it ever blow that first OJ carton apart! It made it through the 2nd one, and then bounced off of the backstop.

While a little bit of the base did fall out, it is pretty obvious that none of it ignited, or detonated.

More to follow. unfortunately, my job resumes tomorrow, so it may be a while before the next progress report.

 

[ShipWreck]

Glad to hear it is going well!