Reloading
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109
The ss109 is to long and heavy it shoots the load pressure way up so i dont think you could even reach 1000 fps with out a KABOOM! if you could load it that fast the bullet would not be stable plus its kinda bad idea what your are looking to do is BAD AND you could end up with a paid vacation at club Fed so dont even try. :idea:
The ss109 is to long and heavy it shoots the load pressure way up so i dont think you could even reach 1000 fps with out a KABOOM! if you could load it that fast the bullet would not be stable plus its kinda bad idea what your are looking to do is BAD AND you could end up with a paid vacation at club Fed so dont even try. :idea:
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165 Posts
Re: 109
Here is my first attempt to clear up a more than a few facts that has a majority of us 5.7x28 fans confused by FN. I stayed more than quit on this subject -I was even banned from the fiveseven forum for trying to relay this info....(I still believe in the freedom of speech and information- unlike them) I did not want to publicize my findings until my recent frustrations due to so many inquires(use of this word is being nice) regarding the sale of my ammo to be illegal.
First though-
Abpt is correct in regards to being to heavy and the "KABOOM", but not the length or even the "paid vacation at club Fed"- here is the why:
The projectile of the SS190 IS in fact not considered Armor Piercing by the definition of the US Gun Control Act of 68'. Here is the "AP" part copied from this act:
The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):
"(B) The term `armor piercing ammunition' means-
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
When I was acquiring my Type 06 FFL, I had to prove that my SS91 projectile was not defined as "AP" by the interviewing ATF agent. I was informed that any .22 caliber projectile or smaller is NOT "AP" due to the definition set forth by the GCA of 68' as describe above. The 5.7x28 projectile is in fact a .224 diameter projectile which is a .22 caliber bullet. I knew these facts were true from my own research. I don't think the BATF would of issued me my license to make and sell bullets that have a STP if they felt that they where "AP".
In fact the projectile of the SS190 is an offspring of the SS109 projectile, here is a link for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7_x_28_mm (specifically the SS190 Duty Round paragraph)
FN designed the NATO standard SS109 in the 70's and later used this same concept of a projectile for the Project 90 & its 5.7x28mm round, they only changed the lead core to aluminum, the jacket from copper to steel and the name from SS109 to SS190. After receiving bad publicity around 2002 due to the Brady Campaign for the SS192, FN decided to use public ignorance of "AP" as one of the reasons to stop sales to civilians. Think about their restriction of the SB/SS193 round for a minute......- a .22 caliber 55 grain lead core bullet going slower than the speed of sound is in NO WAY EVER considered AP, yet FN restricted what they call their SS193- sub sonic round to civilians.
I am more than willing to accept that FN truly decided to stop the sale of the SS190/SS191 because it can penetrate Level IIIA vests when used with the Fiveseven which in the "WRONG HANDS" would put our LEO's at serious risk. This reason, I would have no problem with.
Here is my first attempt to clear up a more than a few facts that has a majority of us 5.7x28 fans confused by FN. I stayed more than quit on this subject -I was even banned from the fiveseven forum for trying to relay this info....(I still believe in the freedom of speech and information- unlike them) I did not want to publicize my findings until my recent frustrations due to so many inquires(use of this word is being nice) regarding the sale of my ammo to be illegal.
First though-
Abpt is correct in regards to being to heavy and the "KABOOM", but not the length or even the "paid vacation at club Fed"- here is the why:
The projectile of the SS190 IS in fact not considered Armor Piercing by the definition of the US Gun Control Act of 68'. Here is the "AP" part copied from this act:
The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):
"(B) The term `armor piercing ammunition' means-
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
When I was acquiring my Type 06 FFL, I had to prove that my SS91 projectile was not defined as "AP" by the interviewing ATF agent. I was informed that any .22 caliber projectile or smaller is NOT "AP" due to the definition set forth by the GCA of 68' as describe above. The 5.7x28 projectile is in fact a .224 diameter projectile which is a .22 caliber bullet. I knew these facts were true from my own research. I don't think the BATF would of issued me my license to make and sell bullets that have a STP if they felt that they where "AP".
In fact the projectile of the SS190 is an offspring of the SS109 projectile, here is a link for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7_x_28_mm (specifically the SS190 Duty Round paragraph)
FN designed the NATO standard SS109 in the 70's and later used this same concept of a projectile for the Project 90 & its 5.7x28mm round, they only changed the lead core to aluminum, the jacket from copper to steel and the name from SS109 to SS190. After receiving bad publicity around 2002 due to the Brady Campaign for the SS192, FN decided to use public ignorance of "AP" as one of the reasons to stop sales to civilians. Think about their restriction of the SB/SS193 round for a minute......- a .22 caliber 55 grain lead core bullet going slower than the speed of sound is in NO WAY EVER considered AP, yet FN restricted what they call their SS193- sub sonic round to civilians.
I am more than willing to accept that FN truly decided to stop the sale of the SS190/SS191 because it can penetrate Level IIIA vests when used with the Fiveseven which in the "WRONG HANDS" would put our LEO's at serious risk. This reason, I would have no problem with.
abpt1 said:
Using the PS90 rifle: (don't have the pistol yet)
I haven't any of the SS109 bullets, but have reloaded the 55 gr FMJBT successfully. I started with 3.5 gr of Ramshot True Blue and took that up to 4.5 gr where I believe they are going supersonic (noticable crack). The lower end load (3.5 gr TB) produced a mild report and worked the action fine. I assume 3.5 gr of True Blue would be a good starting point for working up a load for the SS109 as well.
I didn't chronograph any of the loads and will this Spring once the weather turns around for the better.
Also, I am working on a hotter load for the Hornady 40 gr AMAX bullet. I have worked it to a point where the carbine would cease and ejection does not fuction properly. I am trying some loads now with MDS coated cases using KG's Moly-Coat applied to the cases. I'll keep any progress posted here.
I haven't any of the SS109 bullets, but have reloaded the 55 gr FMJBT successfully. I started with 3.5 gr of Ramshot True Blue and took that up to 4.5 gr where I believe they are going supersonic (noticable crack). The lower end load (3.5 gr TB) produced a mild report and worked the action fine. I assume 3.5 gr of True Blue would be a good starting point for working up a load for the SS109 as well.
I didn't chronograph any of the loads and will this Spring once the weather turns around for the better.
Also, I am working on a hotter load for the Hornady 40 gr AMAX bullet. I have worked it to a point where the carbine would cease and ejection does not fuction properly. I am trying some loads now with MDS coated cases using KG's Moly-Coat applied to the cases. I'll keep any progress posted here.
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I stand corrected no one seems to like to talk about the 5.7 I use to belong to another fourm but i was baned for well whos knows talking posting not going with the grain ? eh who cares that was bullshit but i have a guy with a large supply of 5,56 855 kinda cheep i got some from him hes a good guy. http://www.tds-us.com/
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