FN Herstal Firearms banner

1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a SCAR 16s and it has been a blast to shoot. Very accurate, especially with match ammo. However, during a match I had a jam where the round hit the chamber face and the bullet pushed all the way back inside the shell. I didn't think much of it, so I finished the last 10 rounds in the mag with no problem. But, recently while bench shooting with various ammo to see what groups the best, I have had 4 more jams. Two were where the bullet pushes back into the shell and the other two the bullet tip bent and was slight pushed back into the shell.

After doing some research I came across this thread:

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-16s/18717-pmag-feeding-problem-jamming-chamber-face.html

I tested out my gen3 pmag and USGI mag. Both times while hand cycling the rounds, the right side rounds would have deformation or damage at the tip and the left side rounds feed fine. So it's clear I have a series problem with my scar or mags. I then decided to contact FN customer support and the response I got was the last thing I expected. The representative told me that it could be the ammo I'm using and to try some quality ammo. I told him I stay away from Wolf and only use federal xm193, LC m193, Winchester, and federal match. I've had one jam with literally each type. Then he said that it could be a mag problem and I may need to use a FN brand mag. All I could think in the back of my head was a $2500 rifle that can not shoot standard ammo or use aftermarket mags without jamming issues? My AR-15 has had zero jams over the past five years and I started to wonder, "did I invest my money in the wrong rifle"?

I really do love my scar 16 when it performs well. And I'm pleading with anyone that may know a fix to this, without changing mags or using only match grade ammo. I'm so frustrated my head hurts. Also, if you haven't already you should hand cycle your rounds and eject them to see if its happening to you. They may be chambering fine but you might get some bullet tip deformation which can't help accuracy.


I really hope there is a quick fix to this other than tossing all my USGI and pmags. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
I would grab different mags to test. marks or deformation of the rounds when you hand cycle are the nose hitting on the way out. Plus hand cycling is not a good way to gauge functionality. What kind of ammo had bullet setback when you used it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
Yes, could be mags. Use a good USGI and see if the problem persists. Ive had issues with plastic mags causing problems in the SCAR. Keep in mind the SCAR16 was designed to use USGI mags and FN mags. Not mags designed for other types of rifles. I wish there was one magazine that would work in every type of weapon out there, but that's just not the case. Can you post a list of the USGI mags you have on hand?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
+1 hand cycling a handgun or rifle usually tells you nothing useful.
Have you had a close look at the barrel ramps?
I'll try it at the range tomorrow and see if the right rounds are catching after I fire a left one. I not sure what the brands are for the USGI. I'll check that as well. My main question is:

are there any members out there that run their scar 16s with pmags gen3 with absolutely no problems? No jamming or bullet deformation?

second:

can scar 16s reliably use pmag gen3's? Or like others here have said, they were design to use only FN mags. Which would suck big time, since my AR-15 runs all these mags find. I'm really starting to get buyers regret, if it wasn't for this one issue, I couldn't be happier. Lastly, I'm not in a position to get rid off all my pmags for my scar and replace them with FN. I would sell my scar before doing that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would grab different mags to test. marks or deformation of the rounds when you hand cycle are the nose hitting on the way out. Plus hand cycling is not a good way to gauge functionality. What kind of ammo had bullet setback when you used it?

I have tried lancer, pmag gen3 and a USGI 10/20 mag. The rounds that seating back where:

xm193
LC m193
federal match
and Winchester 5.56
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
You seem to keep avoiding or dancing around the issue that several other people have already stated: the SCAR is a COMBAT rifle. It is designed with military combat in mind, using military combat equipment and ammunition. It was designed to use USGI magazines, as well as magazines designed by FN itself.


now compare that to your AR, which was designed as a commercial product. It wasn't designed or built for combat. Yes I'm well aware that it is based off a weapon designed for combat, but your AR was designed to be easily used and compatible with a myriad of accessories on the civilian market.

perhaps you can call FN back and ask them to make a "sport" version of the SCAR that accepts all the magazines in the world. Until then, I would listen to the manifacturer's recommendations and use equipment rated for the rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
If it will not function with NEW USGI magazines, send it in for services. NO QC is 100% and you may have received an out of spec unit. If you don't like that Pmags are not SCAR compatible, you could always post it in the for sale section.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,616 Posts
Read this

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-16s/18100-check-all-your-mags-especially-pmags-but-check-all-mags.html

You can take two stances on this issue.

1. Use the rifle how it was designed with what it was designed with.

2. Use aftermarket accessories and magazine and modify them to work.

If I remember correctly which Id like to think that I do - Scar 16s were around before Pmag Gen 3. If there is a problem then it is most likely with the PMag.

There are always lemons in every batch but your rifle is warrantied for life.
Now you can be an elitist "this rifle should work even if I use a piece of toast for a magazine for what I paid for it" (we've all heard this)

Or you could roll with the punches and learn from the members here and crack on.

I don't need to tell you how good the rifle is because there at hundreds of threads here That already say that. If youd don't want a rifle that can't use pmags I'm sure someone here will buy it off you no problem.

By the way - welcome to the forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
You seem to keep avoiding or dancing around the issue that several other people have already stated: the SCAR is a COMBAT rifle. It is designed with military combat in mind, using military combat equipment and ammunition. It was designed to use USGI magazines, as well as magazines designed by FN itself.


now compare that to your AR, which was designed as a commercial product. It wasn't designed or built for combat. Yes I'm well aware that it is based off a weapon designed for combat, but your AR was designed to be easily used and compatible with a myriad of accessories on the civilian market.

perhaps you can call FN back and ask them to make a "sport" version of the SCAR that accepts all the magazines in the world. Until then, I would listen to the manifacturer's recommendations and use equipment rated for the rifle.
Please show me where I'm dancing around the issue? I said I would the mags at the range to answer one members question and that I would check the USGI mags when I get a chance to. I don't carry them with me to the office. I then answered the question by another member in regards to what kind of ammo was jamming. So again, I'm very confused about that part of your statement. To the other part of your statement, if FN is selling a military rifle to the commercial sector. Shouldn't there be some clarification that the SCAR 16s will only work with military mags and not commercial (after market) mags, especially consider the commercial market consumers buying a commercial rifle just might buy commercial mags like pmags? After all the scar 16s is a civilian version of the scar 16L, just like the ar15 is the civilian version.

Lastly, please show me where I'm dancing around issue so I can answer any questions the best I can. I don't want to ask for help and not offer any info that is need to help me .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
If it will not function with NEW USGI magazines, send it in for services. NO QC is 100% and you may have received an out of spec unit. If you don't like that Pmags are not SCAR compatible, you could always post it in the for sale section.
the USGI mags were not new. I initially bought the pmags because magpul stated that the gen3 were compatible with the scar 16 and other plate forms. Actually I will be contacting magul as well to see if this is something they know about. Getting new FN mags for me is not an option, especially here in California. I've already ask FN if they make ten round mags and the rep said no.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Read this

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-16s/18100-check-all-your-mags-especially-pmags-but-check-all-mags.html

You can take two stances on this issue.

1. Use the rifle how it was designed with what it was designed with.

2. Use aftermarket accessories and magazine and modify them to work.

If I remember correctly which Id like to think that I do - Scar 16s were around before Pmag Gen 3. If there is a problem then it is most likely with the PMag.

There are always lemons in every batch but your rifle is warrantied for life.
Now you can be an elitist "this rifle should work even if I use a piece of toast for a magazine for what I paid for it" (we've all heard this)

Or you could roll with the punches and learn from the members here and crack on.

I don't need to tell you how good the rifle is because there at hundreds of threads here That already say that. If youd don't want a rifle that can't use pmags I'm sure someone here will buy it off you no problem.

By the way - welcome to the forum.

I'm not having a bolt catch issue, I read that post before I bought the scar 16s in fact it was my biggest concern, so I order gen3 pmags so they wouldn't hit the bolt catch. I completely understand that there are lemons in every batch and if I received one I would immediately send it back for the appropriate repairs. But, the very short rep said its either the mag, ammo, and or rifle. I asked him after I double check the mags and ammo and it still persists, is there anything you can do to make this rifle compatible with PMAGS and he said no.

My hope in posting this is to find others that may have had the same problem and have found a solutions other then changing the pmags or by only shooting match ammo. My frustration comes from the fact that I bought this rifle under the impression that it worked with pmags and especially gen3 pmags. Based on the sticky it seems people are using pmags that they modify and so far I haven't seen any post that their pmags are causing a jam other then the link I provided. So there has to be people using pmags with no reliable issue (after the mod is done). I'm hoping this an isolated incident that may just be a lemon or break in period. I have approximately 500 rounds through this scar and maybe 5-6 jams. So it jams on average 1-100 rounds. Thanks for your welcoming to the forums, I've been here for years just browsing and I appreciate your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
If you are having the issue with multiple types of ammo I would rule the ammo out. I would try different mags and if you still have the issue then I would contact FN. I have personally run magpul g3 , fn mags, usgi mags without error. The rifle was designed around usgi mags
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
If you are having the issue with multiple types of ammo I would rule the ammo out. I would try different mags and if you still have the issue then I would contact FN. I have personally run magpul g3 , fn mags, usgi mags without error. The rifle was designed around usgi mags
thank you for your reply. I too think it might be a mag issue. I'm glad to hear your gen3 pmags work fine in your scar16, that gives me some hope.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
thank you you for your reply. I too think it might be a mag issue. I'm glad to hear your gen3 pmags work fine in your scar16, that gives me some hope.
make sure you visibly inspect each mag for bolt catch rise. I do this with all my mags just to make sure
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
I will double check that as well. But, could that cause a jam, if the bolt is slightly hitting the catch?
I'm no expert but I could guess by the slowing of the carrier it would not have the correct momentum impulse to lock correctly. Plus if nothing else it would put wear on components unnecissarly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,833 Posts
Just a FYI I had to mod both gen 2 and 3 mags for my 16. The gen 2 had more to shave off then the 3 though. Idk if this will clove your problem but it's a must mod if you want to use pmag
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Just a FYI I had to mod both gen 2 and 3 mags for my 16. The gen 2 had more to shave off then the 3 though. Idk if this will clove your problem but it's a must mod if you want to use pmag

Thanks I modded all my gen2 and checked to make sure it didn't interfere with the mag catch. I didn't mod any of my gen3 but I will double check that as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
I have ran USGI mags, older milspec versions, the brownells $10 ones, and G3 Pmags in two different SCARs with no trouble. Predominantly, Xm855, 62gr stuff. The only failure I had similar to yours was in my SCAR 17s when a soft point round was inadvertently loaded in the magazine. Which caused the same exact malfunction you describe, if you are not using Soft points and it fails with all mags (specifically quality USGI), Id say it was out of spec in some form or fashion.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top