[patriot_man]

Hello everyone,

From a technical standpoint is the SCAR stock an effective design for controlling recoil?

Compared to the inline stock of the AR-10 it seems that the SCAR's stock sits low on the rifle. Even more so if you account for the larger and taller bolt carrier group. Wouldn't it have been more effective to have the stock mounted higher to have it more inline with the bolt carrier group?

Is there really a need for the bottom of the stock to start supporting the rifle from the fire control housing?

This question came up while I was watching slow motion footage of the SCAR 17 and even the SCAR 16 when I noticed that the rifles seem to snap upward at the end of their rearward cycle.

Also I'm wondering if any users of the Vltor Receiver extension adapters (that are adjusted high) have noticed that recoil is more controllable.

Thanks!

 

[Brett B]

Have you shot one? Watching videos of it won't tell you much. The SCAR 16/17 are some of the most controllable semi-auto rifles I have shot in their respective calibers. What you are asking is akin to Glock guys talking about the high bore axis on Sig pistols causing more muzzle flip. When it comes to actually shooting, in the end that one small component doesn't mean much in terms of how the gun shoots for you. I especially like the lower stock position as it's much more ergonomic for me to get a proper cheek weld without neck strain, but then again I'm fairly tall.

 

[fnx40]

I shot a 17 a few years back and liked it so much I picked up my own recently. I'd rate the recoil management of it the best I've ever felt for the round it's chambered in.

Shot a Scar 16 as well, and I'd say it feels much better than any DI or piston AR I've shot. I don't think the wheel needs to be re-invented on the platform. FN did their homework, and for its intended purpose, has no equal.

 

[fnfalman]

The recoil is hardly noticeable.

 

[chipster]

I don't think the SCAR stock does much for 'controlling recoil' - it's the big mass of steel in the middle of the rifle that does a big part of that.

 

[mityno1]

Can you improve on the Scar 17's recoil control by modifying the stock? Possibly.

Do you need to? No.

Can you improve on the Scar 17's factory OEM trigger? Definitely.

Do you need to? Probably. As a matter of personal preference, the trigger action and feel will do more to improve the accuracy for many shooters, especially more experienced rifle shooters who have mastered the art of finely tuned trigger control. Trigger control is 80% of accuracy, far more important than even proper sighting technique. But, even those who hate the FN Scar 17 trigger generally and surprisingly do well shooting it despite their dislike of it. Even if a trigger upgrade only provides a psychological improvement, that can be significant because it is one less, but very important, distraction one must deal with that can affect those shots that are the most crucial in terms of accuracy like hunting or competitively scored shots.

The Scar 17 works better than any other stock unmodified mass produced battle rifle as-is, right out of the box in the OEM configuration. There are many such rifles, but this one is mine. Whatever you feel you need to do to bond with yours is cool, but not actually necessary to be successful with the Scar 17. And THAT is the magic of the Scar 17.

 

[samnev]

Quote from Mityno1
"Can you improve on the Scar 17's factory OEM trigger? Definitely.

Do you need to? Probably. As a matter of personal preference, the trigger action and feel will do more to improve the accuracy for many shooters, especially more experienced rifle shooters who have mastered the art of finely tuned trigger control. Trigger control is 80% of accuracy, far more important than even proper sighting technique. But, even those who hate the FN Scar 17 trigger generally and surprisingly do well shooting it despite their dislike of it. Even if a trigger upgrade only provides a psychological improvement, that can be significant because it is one less, but very important, distraction one must deal with that can"

I agree with is completely. I shoot an AIAWand a TRG 22 with superb triggers. When I got my SCAR 17S with its over 8lb trigger pull I just couldn't get decent 5 shoot 100 yard groups. Once I put the SUPER SCAR trigger in it felt like a totally different gun. It now is capable of 1 moa groups sometimes better. It's not just psychological it's huge improvement.

 

[Risingsun]

I shot a 17 a few years back and liked it so much I picked up my own recently. I'd rate the recoil management of it the best I've ever felt for the round it's chambered in.

Shot a Scar 16 as well, and I'd say it feels much better than any DI or piston AR I've shot. I don't think the wheel needs to be re-invented on the platform. FN did their homework, and for its intended purpose, has no equal.

Most of the felt recoil from the rifle is mitigated by the muzzle brakes on both the SCAR 16 & 17. It you just shoot at the range, recreationally or competition the muzzle brake is fine. Probably most of the people on this forum use brakes by looking at pictures of their rifles they post.

I don’t use muzzle brakes because I might actually want to use it in a Personal Defense Situation.

I'd say it has a different recoil pulse then DI or Piston AR’s and feels much better with the muzzle brake attached. Without the brakes attached the SCAR Platform felt recoil is not any better than a DI or Piston AR. I would actually say DI systems have softer recoil.
My two cents…

 

[OldRanger]

Most of the felt recoil from the rifle is mitigated by the muzzle breaks on both the SCAR 16 & 17. It you just shoot at the range, recreationally or competition the muzzle break is fine. Probably most of the people on this forum use breaks by looking at pictures of their rifles they post.

I don’t use muzzle breaks because I might actually want to use it in a Personal Defense Situation.

I'd say it has a different recoil pulse then DI or Piston AR’s and feels much better with the muzzle break attached. Without the breaks attached the SCAR Platform felt recoil is not any better than a DI or Piston AR. I would actually say DI systems have softer recoil.
My two cents…

What exactly does the muzzle brake have to do with personal defense? So you can't shoot it at a person if it has a muzzle brake? Please enlighten me.


Edit: lol, forgot to add mt 2 cents to OP. If you have ever watched a high power match you will see people putting the buttstock way up high on their shoulders. I think having the buttstock lower on the scar actually makes it easier to get into a proper firing position, keeps the head more upright.

 

[fnfalman]

Most of the felt recoil from the rifle is mitigated by the muzzle breaks on both the SCAR 16 & 17. It you just shoot at the range, recreationally or competition the muzzle break is fine. Probably most of the people on this forum use breaks by looking at pictures of their rifles they post.

I don’t use muzzle breaks because I might actually want to use it in a Personal Defense Situation.

I'd say it has a different recoil pulse then DI or Piston AR’s and feels much better with the muzzle break attached. Without the breaks attached the SCAR Platform felt recoil is not any better than a DI or Piston AR. I would actually say DI systems have softer recoil.
My two cents…

I don't know about you, but I doubt that when FN designed the SCAR series and decided to put a muzzle brake on it just for shooting at the range or in competition.

 

[Brett B]

Most of the felt recoil from the rifle is mitigated by the muzzle breaks on both the SCAR 16 & 17. It you just shoot at the range, recreationally or competition the muzzle break is fine. Probably most of the people on this forum use breaks by looking at pictures of their rifles they post.

I don’t use muzzle breaks because I might actually want to use it in a Personal Defense Situation.

I'd say it has a different recoil pulse then DI or Piston AR’s and feels much better with the muzzle break attached. Without the breaks attached the SCAR Platform felt recoil is not any better than a DI or Piston AR. I would actually say DI systems have softer recoil.
My two cents…

Believe it or not must of us understand how a muzzle break works and it what it does for recoil, my earlier comments already took that into account. I don't currently have muzzle brakes on either my SCAR 16 or 17, and in my experience they both still have a more controllable recoil impulse than an AR15/AR10 of similar weight shooting their respective calibers.

 

[SubOrbital]

I don't know about you, but I doubt that when FN designed the SCAR series and decided to put a muzzle brake on it just for shooting at the range or in competition.

Our forces have and often equip suppressors as signature reduction devices, so your point is moot in my mind. A brake is designed to do one thing: lessen recoil through specific diversion of gasses. We all know that can cause muzzle flash, which was his point. Mil usage includes signature reduction via suppressor, so the brake's muzzle flash is unimportant to them.

 

[Cadpack]

The bolt carrier of the SCAR is heavy to slow the rpm, carry more inertia for reliable cycling and has a long arm reaching all the way to the piston.

They couldn't put the armature underneath because that's where the rounds are feeding from. Couldn't put it on the side or you'd have two thinner arms prone to breakage. Logical choice was the top, which is where most of the seesaw motion you see in the slow motion videos comes from.

Every time I've seen someone fire the SCAR with the stock folded, they quickly switch back. So yes, it's effective. But if you're not pulling the stock tightly into your shoulder the worse the seesaw motion will be. The grippy rubber pad and concave shape is supposed to help you keep the stock in place on your shoulder. No one really talks about it, but some benchrest/bipod/prone shooters are likely to become lazy with letting the bench, ground or bipod bear the weight of the rifle or having a poor shoulder weld just because of the way the stock rests on the body in the prone position.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_V2wvk2F6A

 

[Fröman]

The centerline of the SCAR stock is actually ever so slightly ABOVE the centerline of the bulk of the reciprocating mass of it's BCG and superior to recoil the physics of the AR10 when shouldered in a proper stance.

 

[Risingsun]

What exactly does the muzzle brake have to do with personal defense? So you can't shoot it at a person if it has a muzzle brake? Please enlighten me

Let me know who many rounds you fire with the muzzle break on before you can hear and stop to put your ear pro. In a personal defense situation….Lets grab my ear pro and eye protection then fire at the bad guy.

You have to be able to use the firearm without ear pro muzzle breaks don’t allow you to do that unless you don’t care about one of your senses.

Plus the SCAR 16 & & 17 when it was first introduced to the civilian market they used flash hiders, just like the MK16 & 17 (Military Version). FN added there version of the PWS muzzle break later, to help reduced felt recoil of the heavy bolt carrier group.

 

[Risingsun]

I don't know about you, but I doubt that when FN designed the SCAR series and decided to put a muzzle brake on it just for shooting at the range or in competition.

They never designed the SCAR with a muzzle brake on it; the original military version used flash hiders, so did the first run of the civilian versions.

 

[Risingsun]

Believe it or not must of us understand how a muzzle break works and it what it does for recoil, my earlier comments already took that into account. I don't currently have muzzle brakes on either my SCAR 16 or 17, and in my experience they both still have a more controllable recoil impulse than an AR15/AR10 of similar weight shooting their respective calibers.

Thank you for the clarification. My experience the DI AR15/AR10 with comparable barrel length the recoil is a lot less than the SCAR platform.

Now reliability the SCAR kills any DI AR15/10.

 

[JonM]

Let me know who many rounds you fire with the muzzle break on before you can hear and stop to put your ear pro. In a personal defense situation….Lets grab my ear pro and eye protection then fire at the bad guy.

You have to be able to use the firearm without ear pro muzzle breaks don’t allow you to do that unless you don’t care about one of your senses.

Plus the SCAR 16 & & 17 when it was first introduced to the civilian market they used flash hiders, just like the MK16 & 17 (Military Version). FN added there version of the PWS muzzle break later, to help reduced felt recoil of the heavy bolt carrier group.

depends on the brake being used...

surefire brake or the bcm comp/brake the shooter doesnt suffer added noise from backblast. the pws brake it comes with however is brutal and qualifies as an inhumane torture device. i run a surefire fa762k on various rifles and have used it on my scar 17 so i use a mb762 a fh762 and have a bcm comp that i also use.

the pws is poor choice by fn as there are a lot better brakes hidrrs and comps out there.

as for the stock i replaced mine with a vltor as its a bit more nonslip and has a better shouldering capability in my opinion. but the oem is very serviceable. at leadt if i got to buttstroke a fool with the rifle and the stock breaks it wont deadline the rifle like it does an ar15/ar10

 

[fnfalman]

Let me know who many rounds you fire with the muzzle break on before you can hear and stop to put your ear pro. In a personal defense situation….Lets grab my ear pro and eye protection then fire at the bad guy.

You have to be able to use the firearm without ear pro muzzle breaks don’t allow you to do that unless you don’t care about one of your senses.

Plus the SCAR 16 & & 17 when it was first introduced to the civilian market they used flash hiders, just like the MK16 & 17 (Military Version). FN added there version of the PWS muzzle break later, to help reduced felt recoil of the heavy bolt carrier group.

When it comes to fighting for your life, the last thing to worry about is hearing protection.

In the US Army we used war protection religiously during training. Yet we seem to do just fine in combat firing the various weapons without ear protection on.

 

[BOOMSLANG]

^^^ But did the rifle have as aggressive of a brake as the stock 17. I know mentally the adrenalin helps under stress but damn, I've forgot to drop the muffs after a target check and thought I had blood running down my neck from the next shoot. DEAFinatly not good for the ears, or what we have left.