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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I searched long and hard for pics of the MRO on a Scar before I purchased one, think I found 1-2 pics. Hope this will help other folks out there and add to the SCAR / MRO image bank.

Just picked up my MRO/Salarworks Absolute Co-Witness Mount! When comparing one next to the other the larger FOV of the MRO is very noticeable, I was actually surprised at the difference. Here are some quick pics with T1 size comparison. The Trijicon MRO has a U-Boat Periscope look to it, kinda of kool IMO, but may take some getting used to. I will post a run and gun after action report later this month to see how it compares to my T1. I positioned the optic to coincide with my G33 Magnifier when in use and to take full advantage of the wider field of view the MRO offers.





 

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I guess I must be missing out on something here vis-a-vis red dot application.

The whole point of the red dot is to use both eyes open and focus on the target. Then you bring the gun to bear on target and put the red dot on target. You don't look through the red dot tube/window/whatever. Hell, you can cover the objective lens side of the red dot and you can still use it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The position of the charging handle makes me curious if you are left eye dominate. If so how does the MRO compare to the T1 when aiming with both eyes open.
I am a right handed shooter, right eye dominate, shoot with both eyes open in most situations when running a reflex sight or non-magnified optic. Run the charging handle on the left side for consistency of training with my AK, when combined with the PMM BCD it’s pretty efficient for me.

I am just a small arms enthusiast, run and gun recreational shooter, and law abiding Joe-Shmoe Citizen who exercises his 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment Rights vigorously, so take this review for what’s it worth. While I have had the opportunity to get training by real trigger pullers and door kickers, a Tier 1 Operator I am not, far from it.:mrgreen:


(MRO Overview)

The T1 is the benchmark, without question it’s tried and true and will be transplanted to my Mk18 Pistol. That said I need to give credit where credit is due, Trijicon has been doing its homework, and with comparable battery life, water proofing, relative size and weight, a lower price point, and some logical ergo improvements it gives the T1/T2 some needed competition.

According to Trijicon: “The large aperture and tapered light path maximizes the viewing area in such a small optic, allowing for fast target engagement — especially from non-standard shooting positions”.

Per fnfalman's observations, not sure how much of a difference in rapid target acquisition it will make in the real world or run and gun range environment until I actually shoot with it next weekend.

When comparing both optics side by side what stands out the most is how the outline of the optic housing appears or how much of it you actually notice when behind the gun. With the T1 I see more of the optic body, essentially a thick and small circular boarder with a red dot in the middle. With the MRO I see significantly less of the circular boarder or optic body, the circle with red dot appears much larger and thinner at the edges, essentially disappearing. Think of it as looking through 20mm tube vs. tapered 20.4mm to 25mm funnel. Despite the MRO being larger than the T1, I simply don't see or notice the body as much when behind the ocular lens with one or both eyes open. That’s a plus for me as there is less distraction for my Neanderthal brain to process and I can better focus on acquiring the target and dot.

Mounting the optic further forward on the rail causes more of a tunnel vision effect and increased view of optic body for my eyes, so I have transitioned and position my optic a bit further back on the rail closer to the rear sight which seems to reduce this effect (your results and preferences may vary).

Some Differences / Pros:
- - ambi light control knob on top with mid-adjustment "off position" with 8 brightness settings (6-Daylight 2-Night Vision)

- - flush non-capped windage/elevation turrets require no special tool for adjustment and are clearly marked for windage and elevation (nothing to lose or remember)

- - psalm reference on the optic (Trijicon Thing) may offend some folks, in particular Jihadi types

- - very sharp and crisp 2moa Red Dot

- - aftermarket support offering mounting solutions for the MRO (ie. Scalarworks and many others)


Some Differences / Cons:
- - MRO has no protective cover for optic lenses like the T1 bikini cover or T2 flip covers. Guess I will have to wait for I.O. to make their MRO cover

- - slightly larger optic in terms of height

- - U-boat Periscope look may not be for everyone if aesthetics are a concern

- - psalm reference on the optic (Trijicon Thing) may offend some folks, if so look elsewhere


So far my initial impression of the MRO is very favorable and in side by side comparison I prefer the sight picture of the MRO. Only time and rounds down range will tell if the MRO lives up to the T1 standard of durability.
 

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Nice write up. I bought one a few months ago to see what all the negative hubbub was about. At the time many of the Internet Ninja Aimpoint fans were trashing the MRO. So I bought one from a guy on CalGuns. He had just bought two and decided to sell one.

There was a lot of talk about distortion and magnification and internal reflections, but after I spent some time with the MRO, comparing it to my T1s, PRO, and T2, I found that the complaints were way overblown. With the MRO it looks like the trade off for a wider field of view is a little distortion around the edges which is a problem that seems to completely disappear to my eyes and brain when I'm using the sight.

There are some internal reflections that I noticed, and those are real, but they really only show up if you look hard for them. I haven't encountered them as a problem in use.

I am glad you like yours. I also put my MRO on a SCAR and I've been using it occasionally.

In comparison to the T1, the MRO is slightly less refined, but makes up for it with the wide field of view and better price. I will say that I think that the T2 is a better optic than the MRO. The T2 glass is better, there is absolutely no distortion and the colors are less tinted.

You said that you were going to test it with the G33, I'd be interested in what you find. I tried the MRO with the Aimpoint 3X and had some issues. I'd like to hear your opinion with the G33.

Anyway, thanks for the nice write up, looking forward to any other observations you might want to share.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Nice write up. I bought one a few months ago to see what all the negative hubbub was about. At the time many of the Internet Ninja Aimpoint fans were trashing the MRO. So I bought one from a guy on CalGuns. He had just bought two and decided to sell one.

There was a lot of talk about distortion and magnification and internal reflections, but after I spent some time with the MRO, comparing it to my T1s, PRO, and T2, I found that the complaints were way overblown. With the MRO it looks like the trade off for a wider field of view is a little distortion around the edges which is a problem that seems to completely disappear to my eyes and brain when I'm using the sight.

There are some internal reflections that I noticed, and those are real, but they really only show up if you look hard for them. I haven't encountered them as a problem in use.

I am glad you like yours. I also put my MRO on a SCAR and I've been using it occasionally.

In comparison to the T1, the MRO is slightly less refined, but makes up for it with the wide field of view and better price. I will say that I think that the T2 is a better optic than the MRO. The T2 glass is better, there is absolutely no distortion and the colors are less tinted.

You said that you were going to test it with the G33, I'd be interested in what you find. I tried the MRO with the Aimpoint 3X and had some issues. I'd like to hear your opinion with the G33.

Anyway, thanks for the nice write up, looking forward to any other observations you might want to share.
Will be sure to share my experience. Had red dot smear issues with T1 + 3x mag G33. Adjusting the diopter helped minimize the issue but was unable to get a perfect 2moa dot without some sort of distortion.
 

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Will be sure to share my experience. Had red dot smear issues with T1 + 3x mag G33. Adjusting the diopter helped minimize the issue but was unable to get a perfect 2moa without some sort of distortion.
You may experience something similar with the MRO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You may experience something similar with the MRO.
I sure hope the MRO exhibits less of this phenomenon than the T1. I am bit of a perfectionist so and the distortion really gets my goat. However, even with the T1 + G33 red dot distortion it did not really effect practical accuracy from 200-600 yards, it was more annoying than anything else.
 

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I sure hope the MRO exhibits less of this phenomenon than the T1. I am bit of a perfectionist so and the distortion really gets my goat. However, even with the T1 + G33 red dot distortion it did not really effect practical accuracy from 200-600 yards, it was more annoying than anything else.
T2 is where it's at. Flawless round dot so crisp you can use the edges as hold-off points if you felt the desire. I have not magnified an MRO, though. The T1 was about an 8 MOA hotdog at a 45* angle, just like in photos. One thing I have noted on the MRO is that the fish-eye and magnification make it feel very similar to my Nightforce NXS on 1x. Workable and you can train through it, but not the completely "flat" feel you get looking through a T1 or T2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
T2 is where it's at. Flawless round dot so crisp you can use the edges as hold-off points if you felt the desire. I have not magnified an MRO, though. The T1 was about an 8 MOA hotdog at a 45* angle, just like in photos. One thing I have noted on the MRO is that the fish-eye and magnification make it feel very similar to my Nightforce NXS on 1x. Workable and you can train through it, but not the completely "flat" feel you get looking through a T1 or T2.
Wondering if my eyes are getting wonky or if I have slight astigmatism. T1+G33 resulted in a 45 degree smear or hotdog as you noted, once I adjusted the diopter/focus on the G33 it morphed into a tight triangle pattern or cluster of 3 small dots, maybe 3-4 moa in size. This cluster is the way the T1 can occasionally appear at 1x to my eyes on brighter settings.

I will see how they shake out, will compare the MRO to the T1 side by side this weekend doing some run and gun and shooting from unconventional positions. Wish I had a T2 on hand to add to the mix.
 

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The T2 dot is much crisper magnified than the T1. I tried my G33 behind one of my T1s and got the same funky shape. The T2 is good to go.
the t-2 is an improvement over the T-1 but it still has distortion / magnification. The most distortions free RDS I've found was the Hensoldt RSA
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
MRO vs. T1 Post Range Day Observations

MRO vs. T1 Post Range Day Observations:

Range Set Up and Conditions:
85 degrees, bright and sunny with a mild breeze. 70 yard bay with barriers, and 10 man sized torso targets set up in various configurations and distances of 20-60 yards depending on drill.

Round Count:
400 (aprox. 200 with each optic/gun)

Shooters:
Trained with a mixed group of shooters ranging from civilian enthusiasts to Army Green Beret.

Carbine/Rifle Setup:
MRO - Scalarworks Absolute Co-witness Mount on Scar 16 S
T1 - Scalarworks Absolute Co-witness Mount on AR DD MK18 Pistol
Pistol - Sig Sauer Mk25







Ergonomics:
Rifle ergonomics factored into how quickly each red dot picked up and acquired targets. In a perfect world I would have tested these sights on two identical rifles as opposed to a SCAR and AR. For me the SCAR’S Ergo’s were superior to the AR’s and played a role in how quick I was with each optic.

[email protected] yards:
I began to zero from the prone with the MRO running the Eotech G33 Magnifier so I could better see my hits and walk it in. Looking through the G33 magnifier what I saw varied in terms of red dot sharpness and shape, from a tight red dot to a small 45 degree smear (similar to T1 Smear but appearing smaller due to larger FOV circumference in relation to 2 MOA Center Dot). I can only assume that my eyes or visual processing capability began to fatigue resulting in perceived variations with the red dot image with both optics when using magnifier.

Flipping the G33 to the side the MRO 2 MOA Dot was perfectly crisp and round. Took a few shots to verify zero. Feeling pressed for time, with other shooters arriving, I decided not to experiment with the diopter focus in order to eliminate the smear. I will revisit my unresolved issue on my next trip when I do some bench shooting from 200-600 yards.







MRO:
No caps + Marked Turret Body = :?. Used a dime to dial in turrets, did not get lost with windage or elevation as they are clearly marked on the MRO turret body. No caps to loose or drop when wearing gloves.

T1:
Small Caps and no Turret Body Markings = ;-). This process was more time consuming due to small caps and lack of turret markings for windage and elevation. Unscrewing the adjuster caps I placed them on the matt where I would be sure not to loose them. Maybe it was lack of sleep or coffee, but I found myself starring at the T1 struggling to remember which turret did what, despite having just dialed in the MRO which was clearly marked. I manipulated the caps with gloves on which proved to be time consuming. Realistically zeroing the T1 was a minor annoyance, but it is worth considering if you are constantly switching optics rifle to rifle.

Shooting in Outdoor Environment:
Shooting with the MRO and T1 in various lighting conditions from shadow, backlight, direct light, to white-out mid day sun I was able to run brighter red dot settings with the MRO without having red LED reflections inside the housing wash out the FOV and sight picture. Conversely I had to dial down the T1 to lower brightness settings to avoid washing out the FOV or getting internal LED light reflections. Running brighter settings combined with a larger FOV made the MRO slightly quicker when rapidly transitioning form target to target.



Head Position and Sight Alignment:
Focusing in on targets through barriers, holes and various angled slots I noticed the T1 was more sensitive to head position in regards to offset head/eye position and sight alignment causing me to loose the red dot from time to time. Some of the unorthodox positions simulated shooting under cars and from behind cover in urban environments. These positions demonstrated that it may not be possible to achieve perfect head and sight alignment in some situations. Some of the barrier holes and slots allowed only one eye on target which may have contributed to a more of tunnel vision effect. Perhaps due to the larger front objective lens design with its wider FOV the MRO was not as sensitive and more forgiving in terms of offset head/eye position and sight alignment.

1x Magnification:
While many report the MRO to have slight magnification beyond 1x, I did not notice it during my range day testing, nor did I notice any with the T1.

Glass Coatings and Tint:
MRO glass although very clear did have a noticeable blue tint, the lens coating on the T1 was less noticeable.

Ocular Lens Reflections:
Having noticed ocular lens reflections on both optics indoors under florescent lights, I was not able to pick up any ocular lens reflections with the MRO or T1 while outdoors. This is may be due to my preoccupation with running and gunning. In variable outdoor lighting conditions, any perceived magnification, lens tint or ocular reflections were not an issue for me with either the T1 or MRO, but they might be factors to consider before deciding which one best meets yours needs.

Final Thoughts:
Both red dots are excellent reflex sight choices and offer excellent performance. Shooting 200 rounds with each optic reinforced the red dot concept illustrating just how effective and efficient they are in terms of speed/accuracy. Sprinting up and down range with a rifle, pistol, magazines and gear for the better part of the day validated the importance of keeping a fighting carbine/rifle as light as possible (ounces = pounds and pounds = pain).



Running a 3x magnifier with a red dot is handy and great for mid range distances but does add significant weight. I run my rifle with 1x red dot 80% of the time. I like having the ability to quickly clip the 3x Magnifier to the rail without having to re-zero the red dot and just as easily remove it or flip it to the side depending on what the situation dictates. For now the 1x red dot plus FTS 3x magnifier option works out rather nicely for me, although with the annoyance of some red dot distortion. If I lived out in open country or shot out to longer distances more often, I would switch out to the Elcan Specter DR 1-4x and be deal with the extra weight.

I think both the MRO and T1 are excellent and you can’t go wrong with either one so take you pick. For my shooting purposes, I give the edge to the MRO over the T1 as it brings some unique features and benefits (Larger FOV, Improved Ergonomics) to the table and does so at a significantly lower price point. Based on feedback from other members I would have really like to try the T2 + G33 magnifier as the T1 and MRO both exhibited red dot distortions and smear effect when combined with magnifier.
 

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