Scar vs. Masada
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The Masada looks like a very promising system, but I think I'll wait for the SCAR. From the looks of it, the Masada looks like a more complicated system. The SCAR seems like the Glock of rifles, dirt simple. Notice how the op rod for the gas piston system is actually part of the bolt carrier itself rather than being an entirely seperate assembly. Also, the Masada is supposed to accept standard AR barrels. The SCAR will use a proprietary barrel with a service life of 35,000+ rounds. I can't say I've ever seen an AR barrel with a service life that long, unless it's cold hammer forged, in which case, good luck finding CHF barrels 
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See the photos below for referance to what I was saying about the bolt carrier/gas piston system.
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Few things I think the SCAR and Masada have over each other:
SCAR:
One piece upper receiver/handguard
Gas piston op rod built right into the bolt carrier
Longer service life of the system and barrel
Masada:
Non-reciprocating charging handle
Ability to remove the barrel without any tools
All in all, they both look like they will turn out to be great systems. However, right now if my money had to go to one, it would go to FN. Who knows, maybe I'll end up getting both! :shock:
.See the photos below for referance to what I was saying about the bolt carrier/gas piston system.
Few things I think the SCAR and Masada have over each other:
SCAR:
One piece upper receiver/handguard
Gas piston op rod built right into the bolt carrier
Longer service life of the system and barrel
Masada:
Non-reciprocating charging handle
Ability to remove the barrel without any tools
All in all, they both look like they will turn out to be great systems. However, right now if my money had to go to one, it would go to FN. Who knows, maybe I'll end up getting both! :shock:
well, the thing about requiring tools to switch barrels in the SCAR is that with the right tool (one that skips automatically when overtightening the 6 screws) and the right procedure, the barrel maintains zero up to less than MOA difference.
that's rather neato!
I hope the SCAR and Masada both end up being a big success. I like them each for what they bring to the table.
It goes without saying that I think the SCAR is the one to beat. It's tough to beat a company with such a long history of designing and manufacturing some of the worlds finest military arms.
FN isn't the type of company to rest on their past accomplishments either. They've proven themselves to be very innovative with both the P90 and F2000. I have no doubt the SCAR will be a huge success.
MagPul is a great company too. I think the Masada represents one of the best attempts from a domestic company to compete head to head with the high-end imports. I'll also add MSAR and TPD into that group as well.
One thing is for sure... It's AWESOME to see so many excellent new products hit the market these days.
It goes without saying that I think the SCAR is the one to beat. It's tough to beat a company with such a long history of designing and manufacturing some of the worlds finest military arms.
FN isn't the type of company to rest on their past accomplishments either. They've proven themselves to be very innovative with both the P90 and F2000. I have no doubt the SCAR will be a huge success.
MagPul is a great company too. I think the Masada represents one of the best attempts from a domestic company to compete head to head with the high-end imports. I'll also add MSAR and TPD into that group as well.
One thing is for sure... It's AWESOME to see so many excellent new products hit the market these days.
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Looks like my 4 year old glued it together.
Nice concept though.
-TH
Nice concept though.
-TH
With that (Magupll PDR) being so small (weight 3-4 pounds) and firing as I understand it 5.56 or 6.5, or 6.8 rounds, they are going the have to come up with some type of super recoil reduction system. Don't get me wrong, hand cannons have been tried before, they'er fun to shoot a few rounds threw, but are not as practical as weapons that can be controlled.
I hope they follow through and get a working prototype to work. It looks externally, alot like the FN P90 IMO.
I hope they follow through and get a working prototype to work. It looks externally, alot like the FN P90 IMO.
The thing about the SCAR is that it's been tested and trusted by SOCOM and it proves to be very reliable (2nd in the sand test). The Masada however, probably hasn't gone through half of what the SCAR had done. The Scar also, is in its 3rd or 4th generation so the design would should be very good and reliable when it hits the market while the Masada is still in it's first or second generation. When the Magpul PMAG first came out, it had to go through 3 versions? (correct me if I'm wrong) within a year after release to get that right. But I hope they both succeed and it is very clear that both companies have put enormous time, effort, and dedication to their rifles. I am too leaning heavily towards the SCAR though just because it already has its repuation of being reliable out on the field. If I could change one thing about the Masada right now, it would be changing their barrels. The M16 barrel is great but compared to the FN Scar barrel life of 35,000 plus rounds, I think Magpul could do something better to compete against that. A quick question, say if I get the SCAR L in .223 and then I decide to convert it to .308, what new parts/components would I need to get to convert it from .223 to 3.08? Thanks.
I would assume there should be less worries with the Scar but I own an XCR and other than an upgraded trigger, I haven't had any problems with it. If there are problems with the Masada, Magpul will stand behind it. I also like using the AR barrels. That way you can choice what you want, a 10" or 24" SS plus most will be cheaper than if Magpul designs their own barrles. Like I said, I am getting both and the Scar is at the top of my list but it is coming at the end of 08 and the Masada should be here in summer.
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9 Posts
The only thing that the Bushmaster ACR has over the SCAR in my opinion based on what we've been presented to this point is the non-reciprocating changing handle.
Why they choose not to go that route with the SCAR I do not know?
I think it is clear though which rifle has been through the most testing by third parties. The ACR to my knowledge has not been subject to more than a few "experience shoots" by various individuals and certainly nothing that would constitute a proper test of the weapon system.
The ACR seems rushed to me and I think we're going to see issues pop-up once a large amount of them end up in the real world. Of course, this is common for many new rifles, but the SCAR will in my judgment be free from such concerns. We not only have the benefit of SOCOM testing we have the fact that military and LEO production lines will run before civilian. Any production issues that arise will do so during that time and should be well ironed out by the time civilian production starts.
Plus, the ACR is not at present going to be sold with a folding stock and I'm not aware of whether it will be sold with a rear sight. Even if the ACR is less expensive than the SCAR the hidden cost of extras may drive up the price. For instance, if you want a high quality barrel, a folding stock, a rear sight and suddenly your inexpensive ACR is climbing right to the $2K mark.
All food for thought.
P.S. In Magpul's defense the PDR that you see cracked was a plastic mock-up like some auto companies do. It wasn't made out of the type of polymer they will use in production.
I love the idea of the PDR, but agree that recoil reduction is going to be a serious factor for Magpul to overcome.
Why they choose not to go that route with the SCAR I do not know?
I think it is clear though which rifle has been through the most testing by third parties. The ACR to my knowledge has not been subject to more than a few "experience shoots" by various individuals and certainly nothing that would constitute a proper test of the weapon system.
The ACR seems rushed to me and I think we're going to see issues pop-up once a large amount of them end up in the real world. Of course, this is common for many new rifles, but the SCAR will in my judgment be free from such concerns. We not only have the benefit of SOCOM testing we have the fact that military and LEO production lines will run before civilian. Any production issues that arise will do so during that time and should be well ironed out by the time civilian production starts.
Plus, the ACR is not at present going to be sold with a folding stock and I'm not aware of whether it will be sold with a rear sight. Even if the ACR is less expensive than the SCAR the hidden cost of extras may drive up the price. For instance, if you want a high quality barrel, a folding stock, a rear sight and suddenly your inexpensive ACR is climbing right to the $2K mark.
All food for thought.
P.S. In Magpul's defense the PDR that you see cracked was a plastic mock-up like some auto companies do. It wasn't made out of the type of polymer they will use in production.
I love the idea of the PDR, but agree that recoil reduction is going to be a serious factor for Magpul to overcome.
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