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Discussion Starter #1
should be interesting.

Sig claims that gun silencers are “subject to burdensome legal requirements” and by calling its muzzle brake a part for a silencer, the federal agency is subjecting it to “economic injury.”

ATF Director B. Todd Jones is named as defendant in Sig’s lawsuit and has 21 days, after being served, to respond to the civil action, dated April 7.

Sig Sauer Sues ATF Over Absurd "Silencer" Determination - Bearing Arms
 

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I'm glad someone has finally stepped up and challenge some of the more ridiculous ATF rulings.
 

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Awesome! Go SIG!

It would be absolutely awesome to get suppressors out of ATF control. Doubt that will happen though.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
somehow i missed it. I wish them luck.... looks like an uphilll battle.


I think it's funny and a little strange the stances they take on things. they won't let this go even though it is clearly not a suppressor, yet the Sig brace is ok, even though it IS clearly a stock...
 

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Right on, Sig!

Makes me feel even better about the MK25 headed my way.
 

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somehow i missed it. I wish them luck.... looks like an uphilll battle.


I think it's funny and a little strange the stances they take on things. they won't let this go even though it is clearly not a suppressor, yet the Sig brace is ok, even though it IS clearly a stock...
It's typical bureaucratic BS. While we like to think the government is a single entity with consistent position based on set policies and law, it's not. You ask a dozen federal employees the same question and you'll get a dozen different answer based on their personal interpretation. That's likely what's going on here; a stamp holder at ATF either had a bad day or have a strict interpretation of the law or have a political agenda etc and denied Sig of the approval they needed. I don't think it would be that tough of a legal battle as the barrel device does absolutely nothing to reduce sound and visual signature (if anything it exaggerate it).
 
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There was a link here a couple of weeks back to the MAC blog where he was discussing this story. I can't find it on the blogspot doing a search. Does anyone remember what thread that was in?
 

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The hell? Does the ATF think that someone will wrap their Sig muzzlebreak in tin foil until it becomes a suppressor?

MPX-C-Detail-L-e1397146424668.jpg
 

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Funny how silencers are totally harmless unless thrown really hard at someone. Yet they are controlled by the ATF. They are not firearms, alcohol, tobacco or explosives. It's a gun muffler. It's insane that these are so controlled. It is possibly the most retarded part of the entire system. You can buy guns everywhere, but need to send in blood, urine and DNA samples to buy a harmless metal tube.

There was supposed to be some kind of a legal push from several manufacturers a while ago to change the process. They wanted the same call in service as when you're buying a firearm. Guess that died huh?
 

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The ATF is of the opinion that the muzzle break (mono-core baffle as they call it) is half of a suppressor so they will not allow it. So how is it that all these manufacturers that put fake tubes on the end of their barrels to look like suppressors can do that. By the ATF logic, that is the OTHER HALF of a suppressor.:icon_problem:
 

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This should be interesting, because components of silencers are regulated as if they were silencers. This 'muzzle break' is exactly the guts of a silencer, all it is missing is a tube put over the outside. A piece of muffler pipe ought to do it.

So both parties have a valid argument. It is not per se a silencer, but if you have ever looked at a sectional of a silencer, it is pretty clearly a component of a silencer.

I'm actually a little surprised if SIG were really trying to sell this, because it is so easy to convert to a silencer that they would have to know that some number of their customers, just through stupidity, will convert this and commit a felony in the process. SIG did not do this by accident.
 

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It has nothing to do with balls taking on the ATF. They must have put allot of money behind this product and more out of desperation are suing. With that said probably go for the Nfa one as my Xmas gift lol
 

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The ATF is of the opinion that the muzzle break (mono-core baffle as they call it) is half of a suppressor so they will not allow it. So how is it that all these manufacturers that put fake tubes on the end of their barrels to look like suppressors can do that. By the ATF logic, that is the OTHER HALF of a suppressor.:icon_problem:
I'm not real surprised, it does clearly look like the baffle core from some suppressors all ready out there it just lacks very easy to add outer sleeve. As for the fake suppressors they have to be a tube with a solid center tube that can in no way effect the muzzle report. There were a couple Airsoft fake suppressors that the ATF felt could be attached to a real firearm and function as a suppressor, they became banned from being sold in the United States.

It is stupid we still have to deal with a 1930's law concerned with poaching on federal land during the depression :?: I say it's long over due for the law to be replealed but I'm afraid those a$$es would just come down with something worst.
 

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SIG did not do this by accident.

This is what I'm hoping for.

Sig sues ATF and wins - ATF b.s. is over-ruled.

Next we can move on to silencers
Then Short-barreled rifles.

Sounds like a bright future to me!

If these big companies with deep pockets keep challenging the stupid rulings, then we as gun enthusiasts could get to play with some cooler toys and not have to deal with the ATF's 1 year long wait time.
 

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somehow i missed it. I wish them luck.... looks like an uphilll battle.


I think it's funny and a little strange the stances they take on things. they won't let this go even though it is clearly not a suppressor, yet the Sig brace is ok, even though it IS clearly a stock...
Nope. Not a stock. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 

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I must be the only one here - or at least a minority when I say I like cans 'regulated'. (by that I mean sold and owned by law abiding citizens). If not, the simple matter of fact would be that EVERY gang banger would have one, make one and use one. Brutal 10 year mandatory sentencing has proved time and time again that gang bangers knowingly avoid bringing NFA items to a crime. Surely, there will be utterly stupid ones that do, but for the most part they understand that doing 2 is better than 10.

I don't like the wait times and the bureaucracy($200 tax stamp) associated with owning NFA items any more than the rest of you, but the end result is that 'we' belong to select group of law abiding citizens.

As for this "Muzzle Break", we all know it's a baffle. Baffle is a regulated NFA item .. period. If Sig want's to make a difference, they should spend the money lobbying to have NFA regulated by Congress("The People") v.s. the ATF. Skirting the law and then attacking the ATF for a blatant disregard of the law is only inviting more regulations. They are most probably not going to win this, they will spend a lot of money in court they could have spent on 16" barrels and ultimately ATF can decide not to allow this weapon to be sold to civilians.

I do wish for them to do well in court - if they will ever get there. This is a civilian matter - and such the outcome will have no bearing on the legality of this "Muzzle Break" .. err .. suppressor baffle.

Now watch for the ATF to reverse the ruling on their so called "Arm Brace". Tit for tat.

-TH
 
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