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Well its good to see these, best to develop a ground game to base stuff on. I'd say overall good post even if there are better ones tho but we all start somewhere.
 
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The only "disarms" I've been taught involve external hammers where uou can sacrifice some flesh or a digit to keep the hammer from striking the pin or side stepping and grabbing the slide and turning the gun inward toward the attacker to off him with his own weapon though with out practice...
 

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Well its good to see these, best to develop a ground game to base stuff on. I'd say overall good post even if there are better ones tho but we all start somewhere.
Yeah, if you find yourself in this situation, things are pretty far from okay already. Training for a desperate situation is certainly part of training. If you can mentally distract the bad guy and maybe close the distance and keep his barrel not fixed on a lethal shot, that's a good start for any move you'd make. 80+% of handgun shootings are non-fatal, so at least statistically, if you can move quickly enough you do have a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
These scenarios are unrealistic for most RW encounters. The drills might be useful if one encounters a scared and stupid person who threatens and puts the gun right on you, but realistically, anyone who knows how to use a gun won't get that close to you.

File under Rex Kwon Do.
Interesting, the last time I disarmed someone [ there's been two over 28 years on the streets working UC assignments who've placed handguns within "range" ] he wasn't as scared stupid person, he was a hardened wanted felon that felt he'd rather kill me than do more time and was wanted for a double homicide. I'd not classify him as scared but I'd agree he was stupid, but only because he ran up on someone who had enough skills to control the encounter and get him hooked up.

I'm demonstrating beyond arms reach, getting off the line of the muzzle and taking it from him along with the near contact distances. That's not putting the gun right on you. When I've trained USAF PJ's, and a few 5th SFG along with several swat teams over the last several years, they ALL seemed to think that was an important skill to acquire, and none of them could pull the trigger on me, anymore so than in the vid. Once they acquired the skill, I couldn't pull the trigger on them.

Action beats reaction, but you've got to have the mindset and talent to "go for it? That's really the only lesson the video conveys. I acquired the skills at SIONICS in 81, a counter terr training facility run by one the founding members of the OSS in ww2, Maj. General Mitch WerBell III.
 

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Interesting, the last time I disarmed someone [ there's been two over 28 years on the streets working UC assignments who've placed handguns within "range" ] he wasn't as scared stupid person, he was a hardened wanted felon that felt he'd rather kill me than do more time and was wanted for a double homicide. I'd not classify him as scared but I'd agree he was stupid, but only because he ran up on someone who had enough skills to control the encounter and get him hooked up.

I'm demonstrating beyond arms reach, getting off the line of the muzzle and taking it from him along with the near contact distances. That's not putting the gun right on you. When I've trained USAF PJ's, and a few 5th SFG along with several swat teams over the last several years, they ALL seemed to think that was an important skill to acquire, and none of them could pull the trigger on me, anymore so than in the vid. Once they acquired the skill, I couldn't pull the trigger on them.

Action beats reaction, but you've got to have the mindset and talent to "go for it? That's really the only lesson the video conveys. I acquired the skills at SIONICS in 81, a counter terr training facility run by one the founding members of the OSS in ww2, Maj. General Mitch WerBell III.

The key point in my post that you quoted was the term "most". Most people who know how to use a handgun won't put the barrel on you and will have enough sense to put enough distance between you and them. That said, they'll likely be surprised if someone tries to disarm them. On the victim side, most people will be at least briefly shocked if a gun is pulled on them. The bottom line is that it's tactically stupid to present a threat in a way that it could be countered. Again, "most" of the people who are this foolish are the ones who'll put a box cutter against your neck while you're at the ATM or just simply aren't pros. Getting up that close and personal, one should be attacking, not threatening, and hopefully from an approach where the victim is vulnerable and the winner will be the one who bleeds less.

The skill set you possess is impressive and I'm glad you were able to take down bad guys- I frikkin' hate criminals. That said, you're a member of an elite, small group of people who've faced enough threats to keep a cool head, have had the training, and demonstrated it in RW encounters. Not to inflate your ego, but you represent the 0.01%, and my concern is the 99.99% of couch potatoes who will watch this video or go to their local neighborhood "Krav Maga" licensed facility and think that they can do what you've done. Like I said, training for disarming is an important part of training because anyone may be tasked with getting out of a very compromised position. I'm a firm believer in reality-based and capability-based training, with my reality and capabilities as a practicing surgeon being likely very limited compared yours as an operator and/or tactical LE. Sadly there are far too many Rex Kwon Do facilities in the world and far too many people out there who overestimate their capabilities and have no back up plan when they can't ace their disarmament move and death punch four attackers. Your disarmament training also likely involved "oops" scenarios which involved confusion, noise, what to do if your disarm fails complete with noise and pain. . .the training on winning a fight going bad and "bleeding less" or surviving long enough for help to arrive IMO can't be trained enough.

Lastly, the two people that you disarmed were stupid. They underestimated your capabilities. I also bet they were scared to the point of pissing themselves when you took their weapons. Just hearing about cases like that make me want to buy you a beer! :th_143:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The key point in my post that you quoted was the term "most". Most people who know how to use a handgun won't put the barrel on you and will have enough sense to put enough distance between you and them. That said, they'll likely be surprised if someone tries to disarm them. On the victim side, most people will be at least briefly shocked if a gun is pulled on them. The bottom line is that it's tactically stupid to present a threat in a way that it could be countered. Again, "most" of the people who are this foolish are the ones who'll put a box cutter against your neck while you're at the ATM or just simply aren't pros. Getting up that close and personal, one should be attacking, not threatening, and hopefully from an approach where the victim is vulnerable and the winner will be the one who bleeds less.

The skill set you possess is impressive and I'm glad you were able to take down bad guys- I frikkin' hate criminals. That said, you're a member of an elite, small group of people who've faced enough threats to keep a cool head, have had the training, and demonstrated it in RW encounters. Not to inflate your ego, but you represent the 0.01%, and my concern is the 99.99% of couch potatoes who will watch this video or go to their local neighborhood "Krav Maga" licensed facility and think that they can do what you've done. Like I said, training for disarming is an important part of training because anyone may be tasked with getting out of a very compromised position. I'm a firm believer in reality-based and capability-based training, with my reality and capabilities as a practicing surgeon being likely very limited compared yours as an operator and/or tactical LE. Sadly there are far too many Rex Kwon Do facilities in the world and far too many people out there who overestimate their capabilities and have no back up plan when they can't ace their disarmament move and death punch four attackers. Your disarmament training also likely involved "oops" scenarios which involved confusion, noise, what to do if your disarm fails complete with noise and pain. . .the training on winning a fight going bad and "bleeding less" or surviving long enough for help to arrive IMO can't be trained enough.

Lastly, the two people that you disarmed were stupid. They underestimated your capabilities. I also bet they were scared to the point of pissing themselves when you took their weapons. Just hearing about cases like that make me want to buy you a beer! :th_143:
Thanks for your thoughts in your reply. Here's one you may enjoy, this one involves a live fire demonstration I put on for several swat types after they suggested I might try disarming with a training gun but may not when it was for all the marbles. What you see here is just one of the shots of the 5 attempts the officer was given with live ammo. Back when I was playing hard on the streets, it was very difficult for me to ignore a challenge like this, so just to prove the point [ I'd already made the first street disarm before this training day with swat types ] I loaded the 5 shooter. Notice this guy is no slouch where physical prowess is concerned. State body building champ 3 years in a row at the time [ and he owned his own gym ].

I didn't want to break his wrist or strip his trigger finger of meat in the disarm [ as it was going to require full speed ] so I only made the redirect instead of grabbing the gun, but the boys there that day never questioned my resolve on the street nor the talent for staying alive after that. Of course it got around the local area with the leo's which didn't hurt the bottom line when more of them wanted some of the same. Listen at the very beginning and you can hear him say "oooooohhh". IIRC, this was the second shot of the 5. The last shot produced slight powder burns on the right rotator cuff. Close but no cigar for that young officer. It's not for the feint of heart, but I know many people out there who have the ability to reproduce the skills as seen in the vids, on demand. Most won't commit to that level of training as average joe/jane citizen ccw'ers, but it's there for the taking if people want to own it..

ETA, I should also mention that I don't recommend anyone attempt to disarm anyone under any circumstances unless professionally trained with some time on skills here. At the time this vid was made [ back around 93 maybe ] I'd successfully disarmed blue guns over 2K times in training at full speed.

I'd have a beer with you any time as well sir

 

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Yes sir, this one most every day

I to carry an edged weapon daily, mostly a folder and push dagger! In close quarters, especially in public areas where bystanders will be beyond the line of fire, a knife is the most effective and responsible option for self defense. The majority of handgun rounds have the potential to over penetrate, so even direct hits will have a chance of inflicting collateral damage. I'm also a bowie fan, but I CCW way to much gear as it is to incorporate my Laredo into the daily rotation. However, I do carry it or a Trail Master when in the great outdoors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I to carry an edged weapon daily, mostly a folder and push dagger! In close quarters, especially in public areas where bystanders will be beyond the line of fire, a knife is the most effective and responsible option for self defense. The majority of handgun rounds have the potential to over penetrate, so even direct hits will have a chance of inflicting collateral damage. I'm also a bowie fan, but I CCW way to much gear as it is to incorporate my Laredo into the daily rotation. However, I do carry it or a Trail Master when in the great outdoors.
I've got an alumni only bowie course coming up in 7 weeks in Lake Mary, Florida. 16 students who've trained with me on the smaller blades at least once are going to take the next step and work on some long blade skills. Is your trailmaster the older carbon V steel version or the newer version? Love the carbon V steel. I won't carry stainless anything, all are carbon tool steels.

Nice long knives sir.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm curious. Do you have a website by chance?
Unfortunately I don't. Interest in the courses [ H2h, folders, stick, cane, bowie, pistol, unconventional weapons and long range precision rifle ] is all word of mouth based on almost a decade of after action reviews and law enforcement agencies recommendations. I don't train long range rifle or stick and cane much at all, but the Friday before the June alumni bowie course, we're holding a stick and cane that day. Mostly ww2 open hand combatives, pistol and knife.
 

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I've got an alumni only bowie course coming up in 7 weeks in Lake Mary, Florida. 16 students who've trained with me on the smaller blades at least once are going to take the next step and work on some long blade skills. Is your trailmaster the older carbon V steel version or the newer version? Love the carbon V steel. I won't carry stainless anything, all are carbon tool steels.

Nice long knives sir.
Thank you! Yes it is Carbon V steel, the American Made Carbon V blades really hold an edge. Not as nice as a custom Bagwell, but the Camillus Cultery Company in New York turned out some of the finest mass produced blades. The funny thing about Cold Steel is that they do not actually make knives, just design them, but you probabley already know that. I agree with you on stainless steel blades, they have no place outside of the domestic dining room. Likewise, my favoite two folders have D2 tool steel blades. Great videos by the way, very motivational.

Knife Blade Cutting tool Utility knife Hunting knife
 

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Oops, just realized those are your videos, Brownie. Will eat my shoe over the Rex Kwon Do comment, LOL. Please send some Tabasco and a side of fries.

Obviously, you have MA training so you're well familiar with all the "Bullshido" gyms around the world, thus you know what I mean. I like your knife choices and that you carry a fixed blade.

Ever teach in TX?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Oops, just realized those are your videos, Brownie. Will eat my shoe over the Rex Kwon Do comment, LOL. Please send some Tabasco and a side of fries.

Obviously, you have MA training so you're well familiar with all the "Bullshido" gyms around the world, thus you know what I mean. I like your knife choices and that you carry a fixed blade.

Ever teach in TX?
Austin swat team/s several years ago now. If there's interest, I'll travel. Appreciate your thoughts sir. No shoe eating !!! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you! Yes it is Carbon V steel, the American Made Carbon V blades really hold an edge. Not as nice as a custom Bagwell, but the Camillus Cultery Company in New York turned out some of the finest mass produced blades. The funny thing about Cold Steel is that they do not actually make knives, just design them, but you probabley already know that. I agree with you on stainless steel blades, they have no place outside of the domestic dining room. Likewise, my favoite two folders have D2 tool steel blades. Great videos by the way, very motivational.

View attachment 37539
Appreciate the thoughts on the vids sir,
 

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Two more great video's Brownie!!!
 
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