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Yes the ss 195 was designed not to expand and the reason was that the Hague treaty of 1899 banned the use of any expanding ammo!

The only 5.7 ammo that is designed to expand is the ss 197 and many say it does not expand very good, but it is recommended for hunting where the 195 will yaw (tumble) and thus create supposedly a devastating wound channel.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But the the SS197SR does expand, no? According to the Hornady website, the V-Max bullet was specifically designed to "dramatically expand".

The reason I'm asking is this, expanding ammo for handguns is illegal where I live. I want to import SS195 and just in case the officials ask questions, I want some data to proof it's not expanding.

The SS195 is available here but it's not considered handgun ammo. I suspect that when the officials read JHP they'll go ballistic :-(
 

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Projectile type/behavior:

SS190 ---------------FMJ, Tumbles (no deformation)-----------
SS191 ---------------Tracer FMJ, Tumbles (no deformation)-----
SS192 ---------------JHP, Tumbles (no deformation)-------------
SB193 ---------------Subsonic FMJBT (Sierra Game King)--------
T194 ----------------JHP, Tumbles (no deformation)-------------
SS195 ---------------JHP, Tumbles (no deformation)-------------
SS196 ---------------V-MAX, Expands with fragmentation--------
SS197 ---------------V-MAX, Expands with fragmentation--------
SS198-----------------JHP, Tumbles (no deformation)-------------



SS196 is discontinued and almost impossible to find was produced only short time!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok, yes.
The law here says deformation beyond the original diameter of the projectile and/or more than 10% shorter than the original projectile and/or loss of more than 5% of projectile mass is illegal. Not sure how the guys who imported SS197 convinced officials that the SS197 is not handgun ammo.
 

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SS195 can deform and or "expand", but it's only when it encounters things like hard objects or Kevlar. Otherwise, it maintains it's shape in most situations. Sometimes the core will separate from the jacket..

It's general behavior in soft tissue here as fired from the FSN:




The official duty round was SS190. I don't know if the Hague convention had any bearing on 28gr design.

SS197SR behavior. It fragments. Sometimes you'll have a lot that is lower velocity and it won't fragment.
 

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This latest test is 7 weeks old done by a well known person
Well this statement in his article shows how much this "well known person" knows.

"The ammo I had on hand is FN SS197SR, one of the two commercially-available hollowpoints"
 

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Well I do see what you are saying about when he said :Commercially " available, the ss 198 is listed by all as LE restricted and while it as well as ss 190 has been always avail on Gunbroker and other sites I have yet to see any in retail stores as such.

What shocked me is that he says the .22 magnum from a NAA mini revolver is almost just as good!

Thank's
 

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The SS197 is not a hollow point. The only commercially available hollow point is the SS195LF.
 

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What shocked me is that he says the .22 magnum from a NAA mini revolver is almost just as good!
All the other gun forums know that the 5.7 is nothing more than an overpriced .22mag, just ask them.
 
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All the other gun forums know that the 5.7 is nothing more than an overpriced .22mag, just ask them.
Surely you jest....everyone knows that a .22 short is much more powerful than the crappy 5.7 and that the .22 Mag out preforms the 5.7 so much that it is sacrilege to mentioned them together in the same breath.

At least that is what I learned on the internet and everyone knows that what is on the internet is true and there can be no disputing this.:MM:
 

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Well I do see what you are saying about when he said :Commercially " available, the ss 198 is listed by all as LE restricted and while it as well as ss 190 has been always avail on Gunbroker and other sites I have yet to see any in retail stores as such.

What shocked me is that he says the .22 magnum from a NAA mini revolver is almost just as good!

Thank's
STB wasn't happy with SS197SR because it didn't perform as designed; it didn't make any attempts to fragment. He could have a lot that underperformed. Which, is why I wish he got his chrono to work..
 

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It does seem that in general I do read a lot about bad lots/batches of 5.7 in various types of bullets. Is this something to worry about since I do have a ton of ss 195 bought between 2007-2009 and I cant check every box.

His ss 197 tests were done 7 weeks ago so most likely there are bad batches of recent ss 197 out there, not good!

Thank's
 

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Well the only way to know for sure is to check the headstamps /lot number to see what year the round was produced. Any of the SS197SR, I've tested has always varied between 1710-1780 fps. The FN loaded ammo tends to be the most consistent from all of my tests (SS190, SB193, SS195, SS198, SS192), just the Fiocchi loaded stuff seems to be the worst offenders.
 

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The SS198 I fired a couple of weeks ago had varying results. Three of the five rounds didn't expand, two tore the living daylights out of the ballistics dummy. The one SS197 round that was discharged tore apart and I retrieved the lead core from the leather jacket I'd placed behind the dummy. I'm working on the video as fast as I can but it takes me time to do justice to the PS90 and the rounds...
 
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