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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I picked up a 5 7 pistol a few weeks ago and needed to decide what round to carry in it. Based on FNs recommendation, and given ballistics theory, I would think that SS198 would be the obvious choice for self-defense. Yet there is a recent video floating around (link below) that shows an SS198 ballistic gel test where the round only penetrates 9" into ballistic gel. It indeed tumbles as designed and remains intact. Yet, again, it only penetrates 9". Considerably less than the optimal 12".


The SS198 is the round FN sells to LE/MIL for carry purposes. This should be the ultimate factory round (not including EA here, hardly a factory and never have ammo in stock). Yet such poor penetration suggests not. No point in discussing the SS195, as it is the same round, it just travels 100fps slower from the pistol. You will probably get the same, or slightly worse results in gel.

The only other commercially available option is the FN SS197. This V Max bullet is a hunting round for small critters. The link below shows a gel test with 5 rounds fired into the gel from a 5 7 pistol. Penetration is good, 12" to 15" in gel, much better than the SS198. However, the bullets do not expand as designed. One actually kind of does.

These results are very disappointing, and leave me uncertain as to what round to carry in my 5 7. Any thoughts about all of this? (I don't see EA ammo as a solution as I cannot buy enough to practice with, or any at all for that matter. Some of their ammo actually requires modifications like spring changes to you gun. No thanks.) Other than EA, what do you guys carry in your 5 7?

 

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I have the same issue wondering about this! The dude in 2nd vid also did a test with a Mini .22lr NAA 1 1/8" barrel revolver using Stingers and it outdid the 5.7 on penetration by a few inches, which is really shocking and maybe this is why so many don't want to use it for self defense and many have always said the 5.7 is nothing but a glorified .22!

Seems the 5.7 isn't all that great except for plinking!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I carry 198 or 190.

Any factory round even the 197 will do the job if you do your part.
Of course shot placement is important. That goes without saying. Any properly placed round is a good thing, but that is not the point. Once placed properly (my part) what the round is capable of doing is what this question is all about. Some rounds do a much better job than others once placed. I am starting to think the 5.7 is not doing its part.

The only thing that give hope for this round is reports of actual shootings with this round. Interestingly the data from actual shootings indicates this round is quite lethal. But there are too many unknowns. Like in Fort Hood, how long did it take for those who were shot to get medical attention? Did they die because they bled out. I hate to use this example because it is such a tragedy, but it is really the only significant data out there that I am aware of.
 

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As sad and sick as Ft. Hood was seems nobody knows what type ammo was used! There were also initially many reports shooter also had and used a M9 Beretta again no info how many rounds came from it or what type of ammo used in it!

So seems nobody knows or is saying what type ammo or gun/guns was actually used!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As sad and sick as Ft. Hood was seems nobody knows what type ammo was used! There were also initially many reports shooter also had and used a M9 Beretta again no info how many rounds came from it or what type of ammo used in it!

So seems nobody knows or is saying what type ammo or gun/guns was actually used!
Actually that is not true. It is pretty well established he used the 5 7 pistol exclusively. He was carrying a 357 mag revolver as well that he did not use. He used SS192 and SS197 ammo. He hit 13 people Center of Mass and all 13 died. 3 people charged him, he hit them NON COM but they were all stopped and had serious damage to their bones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Yep, expends all of it's energy on the target and usually does not exit. Not doing it's part at all. :p
No question it does that. I just hope there is enough energy there when it encounters hard internal parts. 9" in soft gel just makes me wonder. I am used to worrying about the opposite. I am usually worrying about over-penetration with most of the ammo I shoot. I have never owned a caliber that only penetrates 9" in gel. It is usually 18" and more. I have just never encountered this issue before.

And if I had to worry about under-penetration, the round would usually have some weight and momentum behind it. But we are talking about 27 grains here. I'm sure it is a normal concern that will pass once I learn more about this round.

I just watched a couple of more videos of SS197 where the rounds penetrated 13" to 15" and expanded or fragmented. I'm wondering if maybe the 197 might be a better carry round?
 

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There are hundreds of threads in the ammo, FsN, and PS90 sections about the round. The weak round and nothing more than an expensive .22 has been beat to death. Every few months we get a new member and it starts all over.

There are numerous documented uses of the round and most shot with it did not live. If you don't feel secure in the round then find someting more to your liking.

If everyone liked the same round then there would only be one.
 

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During the times I've carried a 9mm on and off duty my round of choice was (and is) the Winchester 9mm 127 gr +P+.

Tests in ballistic gel indicates this is a horrible round for self defense yet it has probably stopped more "bad guys" than any other L.E. round. I don't think ballistic gel is a reliable indicator of real world usage. Also keep in mind this round is the "product improved" version of the "Ultra Deadly" Black Talon round that everyone wanted outlawed.

Besides, when was the last time you were attacked by a block of ballistic gel?

Oh, and I feel quite comfortable with SS198.
 

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I have the same issue wondering about this! The dude in 2nd vid also did a test with a Mini .22lr NAA 1 1/8" barrel revolver using Stingers and it outdid the 5.7 on penetration by a few inches, which is really shocking and maybe this is why so many don't want to use it for self defense and many have always said the 5.7 is nothing but a glorified .22!

Seems the 5.7 isn't all that great except for plinking!
Ballistics 101, for the most part when you slow a round down it will penetrate deeper into ballistic gel.

Why? Because at a slower velocity it doesn't expand or tumble.

Thats why I prefer SS198!
 

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I don't believe all I see or hear however many of the Gun Reviewers of which many are highly regarded in general don't seem to be all that impressed with the 5.7 and say to stick with a 9mm, Mac from Mil. Arms Channel didn't seem to impressed with the 5.7 compared to the PMR 30 which is a .22 magnum!
 

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Well I bought all my 5.7 guns for only plinking, for the really bad stuff "Zombie Apocalypse" my AK's & 100 round drum and M-9 with 19 rounds total will the Job and in case of Dinosaurs I have my Redhawk .454 Casull with .360 gr. penetrators!

For SD there is my Glock 27 and PF-9.
 

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Some of their ammo actually requires modifications like spring changes to you gun. No thanks.) Other than EA, what do you guys carry in your 5 7?
Can we quit with the speculation? None of EA's currently available ammo requires any modifications of your gun to use. The FSN action handles the heavier loads better, and that's where a lot of the 50+gr loads are labeled FSN only. They don't require any spring changes, etc. EA's 20lb recoil spring was sold to help keep any brass from being thrown so far. the MK II FSN has a stronger recoil spring as well..


I believe from any report, SS197SR was used at FT Hood. Most of the Mexican Drug Cartels who have the 5.7 stuff have been reported using SS197SR. I believe on an AMW episode they showed the captured stuff, and there was large amounts of the easily distinguished SS197SR. They probably want quantity over quality/performance, then again speculation. There was a thread on the other forum that had 5 pages of Latin American reports where the FSN was used, and most of the victims were DOA.

None of this internet lore "I got shot 50 times with the P90 and told the LEO to stop shooting me" crap ;)

I've used pork for my test medium, but I want to switch to clear gel, and more extensively test 5.7x28mm, and even .22 magnum. I want to do more than a few seconds of the gel shot, etc. Time and money, but am working towards it this year.

Again, pork will vary density from one to the next, so having an equal medium is not possible in these tests, but:

SS198LF vs Pork:


You have a bullet that penetrate 7+" and exited the pork, even after striking and breaking bone. Evidence of yawing because of where the bullet was recovered. Very large wound cavity:

Here's +P .45HST:


Similar if not slightly smaller wound cavity, and only 2" more of penetration, WITHOUT striking bone.

Most of the 5.7 ammo does approach and go beyond that theoretical velocity where wounding from TC can occur. Your 22 magnum from a pistol while penetrating very deeply (mainly because it doesn't deform), is barely over 1200 fps, is mainly going to do all of it's wounding like a typical pistol round; tearing and destroying things directly in it's path..
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
For the right price I will take it off your hands do you won't have to worry any more
Guys, chill out. I am not here to bash the 5.7 round. I am here to learn. I have done a bunch of research the last few weeks. This is where I am at right now after taking in all I have read and watched. I am asking and raising these questions to learn more.
 
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