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So I was in a gunstore with my buddy who just got an FN Five Seven handgun. He was going to have the place order a case of SS197sr as it's the only thing they allow at indoor ranges around here, and when the gunstore called up Jerry's Sports Center (almost all gunstores get their wholesale stuff from these guys), the guy on the phone said they have discontinued SS197sr, and only SS195lf is available commercially. .WTF??

Since when?
 

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I heard through the grapevine the Fiocci (the US manufacturer of SS197SR for FN) is being replaced with another manufacturer under license from FN to produce the SS197SR.

I would not be too concerned about this.

It would be suicidal for FN to not manufacture SS197SR (be it by themselves or under license with another manufacturer) as they sell the PS90 to the general public as a 'sporting rifle'. What good is a sporting rifle without sporting ammunition? The SS195LF (which would be the only ammo available to the general populace if the SS197SR is discontinued) is a 28 grain underpowered projectile that has no sporting use what-so-ever, much like the SS198 - identical to the SS195LF except for .2 grains more of powder. The SS198 is not considered a 'sporting round' but a SD round for the police forces.

The 40g projectile is the best weighted projectile for this firearm (I know, I'll get some flak over this statement). You give up some velocity over the 28g projectile but the 40g packs more punch. It won't get there fast (around 2400 fps for the SS195 and 2150 fps for the SS197SR) but that 250 fps decrease in velocity increases the knock down punch from 340 ft-lbs for the SS195 to 420 ft-lbs for the SS197SR because of the extra 12 grains of weighted projectile.

As soon as the 'sporting round' ammunition is no longer produced, it will further empower the BCFPGV additional 'ammunition' to get the 5.7 platform banned as it will no longer be considered a sporting rifle, but a platform to kill cops.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
 

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The last FN Q&A stated this:

5. Will the 5.7 ammunition be produced by anyone else than FNH like Winchester or Federal, to result in a overall price reduction? Along with FNH, Federal will be the likely producer of the 5.7x28mm ammo in the future. I doubt there will be a price reduction. FNH has not taken the masive price increases that the other ammo makers have taken. In fact, 5.7 ammo is some of the cheapest rifle ammo on the market.
 

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Thanks for bringing this up Nuke. We both had a ghostly white face when hearing that(and lol, you don't even own a 5.7). I am going to stock up regardless as this pistol really makes me smile,and I'm comfortable with it.

The plus side is, Torrington and high rock, I needn't worry about 197SR....

I had a great laugh by a post I read on another board where a fellow wants to purchase 10,000+ rounds of V-max! Hot daym!!! That is a big stash!
 

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The SS195LF (which would be the only ammo available to the general populace if the SS197SR is discontinued) is a 28 grain underpowered projectile that has no sporting use what-so-ever, much like the SS198 - identical to the SS195LF except for .2 grains more of powder. The SS198 is not considered a 'sporting round' but a SD round for the police forces.

I dont think that is true the ss195 is a far better found from what i seen on graphs on the other forum. It shows the round having less of a drop from 100 to 200 yards then the ss197
 

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Anyone have any experience with the S4 round by chance?
 

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workingman1976 said:
I dont think that is true the ss195 is a far better found from what i seen on graphs on the other forum. It shows the round having less of a drop from 100 to 200 yards then the ss197
That is true of any calibre projectile with increasing weight.

A 30-30 150g projectile will not have as much drop as a 30-30 170g projectile at 200 yards given the same charge. It is pure physics. The only way to overcome this drop is by increasing the powder charge within the cartridge which will increase the pressure. Increased pressure means increased velocity (at the same projectile weight) - and a very real threat that your firearm will go KB. There are also other variables to consider, too many to go into here. But if you remove all the variables except projectile weight and powder charge, you will get the same result will all calibres of projectiles.

A very simplistic way to look at this is velocity (fps) = pressure (PSI) X projectile mass (lb). You get the weight of the projectile by dividing the weight in grains/7000 so a 28g projectile weighs .004 lbs. There are other variables such as gravity, fluid viscosity, temperature, humidity, wind, atmospheric pressure, bullet co-efficient, ....
 

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iCeMaN said:
Anyone have any experience with the S4 round by chance?
The S4 is a 28 grain HP projectile (taken from a SS195 or SS192 or SS198 - or provided from a supplier in Belgium) that is seated/re-seated into either a new (dis-assembled SS195 or other SS type cartridge) or used cartridge with 6.9 grains of powder (True Blue I suspect). I can not say for sure whether the primer has been changed on the disassembled new cartridge but given the manufacturers less than enthusiastic pention for LF primers - it may very well be changed.

Due to the increase in powder charge which increases velocity as well as pressure, it is considered the fastest round available to civilians on the market today, exceedimg the velocity of the SS198. The velocity increase also increases the "knock down" power of the projectile.

Based on my VERY loose calculations, it produces about 2700 fps (not measured) at a pressure of around 52,000 PSI (not measured) in the PS90 (give or take 2K to 3K psi). The velocity is decreased in the FiveseveN (down to about 2200 fps (not measured)) as there is insufficient time to burn all the powder (True Blue is a slow burning pistol powder) as well as the length of the barrel, which results in the prominent 'flash' at the muzzle in the FiveseveN.
 

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well I would like to try some of those rounds out, but I am kinda weird about using reloads in my guns. I spent alot of money on them, and I know Elite is a kick azz company. But I still prefer factory to reloads for safety reasons
 

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workingman1976 said:
well I would like to try some of those rounds out, but I am kinda weird about using reloads in my guns. I spent alot of money on them, and I know Elite is a kick azz company. But I still prefer factory to reloads for safety reasons
Can't say I blame you. I have 100 rounds of S4 that WILL NEVER be fired from my firearms - this mainly due to the variations in length of the casings (I ordered once fired cases instead of the new cases). One such case is greater than 1.14in in length (factory cases are set/trimmed to 1.1375in).

I will only fire my reloads or factory loads. I use my reloads due to the extra ordinary precautions that I take when reloading, ie - it will take me 4 hours to re-load 50 cases, mostly because of the time involved in making sure the case shoulder and trim length are set properly.

Many people like EA. I do not - my personal preference.

This is way too much of an un-forgiving round.
 

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HK SD9 Tactical said:
workingman1976 said:
well I would like to try some of those rounds out, but I am kinda weird about using reloads in my guns. I spent alot of money on them, and I know Elite is a kick azz company. But I still prefer factory to reloads for safety reasons
Can't say I blame you. I have 100 rounds of S4 that WILL NEVER be fired from my firearms - this mainly due to the variations in length of the casings (I ordered once fired cases instead of the new cases). One such case is greater than 1.14in in length (factory cases are set/trimmed to 1.1375in).

I will only fire my reloads or factory loads. I use my reloads due to the extra ordinary precautions that I take when reloading, ie - it will take me 4 hours to re-load 50 cases, mostly because of the time involved in making sure the case shoulder and trim length are set properly.

Many people like EA. I do not - my personal preference.

This is way too much of an un-forgiving round.

Then why don't you send them back?
 

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pinkpistolpacker said:
HK SD9 Tactical said:
workingman1976 said:
well I would like to try some of those rounds out, but I am kinda weird about using reloads in my guns. I spent alot of money on them, and I know Elite is a kick azz company. But I still prefer factory to reloads for safety reasons
Can't say I blame you. I have 100 rounds of S4 that WILL NEVER be fired from my firearms - this mainly due to the variations in length of the casings (I ordered once fired cases instead of the new cases). One such case is greater than 1.14in in length (factory cases are set/trimmed to 1.1375in).

I will only fire my reloads or factory loads. I use my reloads due to the extra ordinary precautions that I take when reloading, ie - it will take me 4 hours to re-load 50 cases, mostly because of the time involved in making sure the case shoulder and trim length are set properly.

Many people like EA. I do not - my personal preference.

This is way too much of an un-forgiving round.

Then why don't you send them back?
EA threatened me with a lawsuit over the release to the general public of my copyrighted 5.7 load tables. It is a legal issue. 'Nuff said.
 

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workingman1976 said:
i dont get it why would that be a problem?
It probably is not going to be an issue but I am a CYA guy so this single purchase of S4 will remain in limbo until this is fully resolved - less I be accused of using their ammo in my load table development processes. That is why you will not see any load tables released by me for their S4. As the S4 is the only rounds that I ever purchased from EA, the rest is free game for my development purposes.

As long as the S4 ammo I purchased is intact it becomes a non-issue.

As I said, I do not feel comfortable with this ammo due to the variations in this particular batch - again, this is my personal preference as I consider this particular batch out of specs - specs that I use. I also considered the S4 to be a 'hot' ammo. The 6.9 grains of True Blue powder in the S4 round, in my opinion, may exceed the upper limit of pressure that I am confortable with in using in my firearms. You have to remember that minor variations in rounds can cause pressure changes up to 3,000 psi in either direction.

FN sets their case length at 1.1375 inches for a reason and any case lengh over that measurement is out of specs for me.
 

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I was just told by my ammo supplier that the ss197 has been discontinued but he did find new federal rounds avail w/ amax bullets.
 
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