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OMG! This is really sad, my .22 NAA mini revolver with a 1 1/8" barrel with 32 gr stingers does as good or better than this test! So one can take this 1 of 2 ways, either my mini .22 has always been way underrated or the 5.7 has always been overrated and I don't which it is?::FF::
 

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From all I have seen the ss 198 will only sometimes penetrate level 3 A body armor, however any 7.62X25 Tok ammo original military issue without the steel core will always penetrate 3 A and up to 12 +" of gel behind it! Can U imagine what the X25 steel core (banned since 97) will do!

I don't think any 5.7 ammo including the ss 190 could or would outperform steel core X25!
I know many folks will get mad but I say what I see and if I am going against Perps with B/A I will be using my Tok or 52 with the X 25 steel core!

So basically the 5.7 is designed to imitate X25 ammo and it doesn't even come close! Lately I have heard that X25 ammo is now available which does 1875 fps 86 gr bullet out of a pistol and it is listed as such by S&B, I will see about getting some of that!

I really like my 5.7 toys but if I need to do a MANS Job I will get my X25 SC any day!:?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
From all I have seen the ss 198 will only sometimes penetrate level 3 A body armor, however any 7.62X25 Tok ammo original military issue without the steel core will always penetrate 3 A and up to 12 +" of gel behind it! Can U imagine what the X25 steel core (banned since 97) will do!

I don't think any 5.7 ammo including the ss 190 could or would outperform steel core X25!
I know many folks will get mad but I say what I see and if I am going against Perps with B/A I will be using my Tok or 52 with the X 25 steel core!

So basically the 5.7 is designed to imitate X25 ammo and it doesn't even come close! Lately I have heard that X25 ammo is now available which does 1875 fps 86 gr bullet out of a pistol and it is listed as such by S&B, I will see about getting some of that!

I really like my 5.7 toys but if I need to do a MANS Job I will get my X25 SC any day!:?
The guy in the video, isn't sure what he's shooting. "Supposed IIIA". No label to confirm. If I can score 3, IIIA side panels, I'll glady see if 7.62 Tok can match SS190's penetration. Can you link me to this ultra fast S&B as well?
 

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Well sadly when u order panels they don't have a label on them but u are correct when he is talking level 3 he surely has to mean 3A since there are no plates! Unless I am wrong I could in the video at start of Tread not see what level it was on label, also I don't think I have ever seen or remember any labels in the panels or vests u or most others use!

I will see about finding the info about the latest Hot S&B ammo, I am on many forums and on 1 lately many have probs with their Toks using the new S&B and some have been damaged
while others are saying a Tok cant handle it but a 52 can! 1 dude put up info from S&B listing this velocity, I also hear the Red Army X25 imported by Century is doing around 1625 + fps!
 

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Sellier & Bellot ? Product catalogue I was slightly off the bullet is 85 gr at 566 m/s = 1857 fps!Sellier & Bellot - Pistol and revolver cartridges Seems they now offer many of their ammo including the X25 in 3 velocities .

Here are the X25 ammo Specs!
1) is 566 m/s= 1857 fps. 2) 515 m/s = 1690 fps. 3) 469 m/s = 1538 fps! The 515 m/s was their standard load at 1690 fps all of these are 85 gr bullets from a 93 mm barrel which is 3.66 "!

So I guess many are right complaining the latest S&B ammo is to hot for the Toks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well sadly when u order panels they don't have a label on them but u are correct when he is talking level 3 he surely has to mean 3A since there are no plates! Unless I am wrong I could in the video at start of Tread not see what level it was on label, also I don't think I have ever seen or remember any labels in the panels or vests u or most others use!

I will see about finding the info about the latest Hot S&B ammo, I am on many forums and on 1 lately many have probs with their Toks using the new S&B and some have been damaged
while others are saying a Tok cant handle it but a 52 can! 1 dude put up info from S&B listing this velocity, I also hear the Red Army X25 imported by Century is doing around 1625 + fps!
I won't test a panel/vest without the label intact to know at least the first time what I'm using. The level IIIA stuff I've used has been Rhino Armor Ballistics. The II vests, have been various manufacture (PACA).

I'll see if I can locate some of that Tok ammo. The Tok gun I have available to bring to the range is a CZ52
 

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Well I did a bunch of research today, since about 4 yrs. ago when I had checked on the S&B site at that point their 85 gr. X25 was listed at 1650 fps from a CZ 52 and at 1785 from a subgun at that time I corresponded with them per several e-mails and was asking about their old M-48 ammo velocities and was informed that it had always been loaded at 1600 fps back then, best I ever got was 1485 fps (yes I used the standards conversion tables) so I guess it lost some power over 62 yrs.

Currently here in the States u can only find 2 types of S&B X 25, which is their now standard 85 gr at 1857 fps or their Winchester X 25 at 1650 fps. so why they increased the power I can only guess since the comp has been recently producing X 25 right at about 1650 fps.

Prvi/Ppu also sells 2 types of 85 gr listed as 1722 fps, however this was out of 9 " sub-guns and out of a pistol they only do 1450 fps, Wolf also 85. gr is also listed on many places as 1722 fps but again from a longer barrel and from a pistol will do 1641 fps.

Romanian military lists 86 gr at 1456 fps. New Rom Red Army Standard 85 gr lists at 1625 fps.
Magsafe makes a 52 gr which does 2125 fps, Reeds ammo has a 85 gr at 1700 fps and also a 60 gr at 2000 fps (WOW) !

There are several Warning by some Manufactures not to use certain Hot ammo in Toks but only in CZ 52's, which I guess is the reason there have been so many reports of people using the new S&B 85 gr in their Toks from the Toks cracking to not functioning properly, which I now do understand!

I have in the last yr read at least 6 reports of people getting over 1800 fps with the 85 gr S&B, but I had discounted these, since unless the Table of Standards are used and actual velocities converted those velocities are very questionable!

I will see about getting some new S&B at the next show in Feb and test them, on my newest 3 yr old S&B best I ever got was right at 1600 - 1625 fps avg. I however will make sure to use 1 of my 52's and not 1 of my Toks, however after a few mags as snappy as my older S&B is the new stuff will surely make my wrist sore.

In my opinion a 85 gr bullet at 1857 fps is very hot and maybe to hot at least out of a pistol? Unless in Arctic conditions of 30 or 40 Deg. below Zero!:roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
VZ, are these conversion tables for velocities something you can share? I want to start converting mine to keep on file, and want to see the differences between similar rounds easier when I chrono them on different days
 

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Sure, but there are so many ways like do a search for Ballistic calculator app/table or charts! Some are free that u can download others may cost about $9.99 and up, all u need to know is muzzle velocity at ur location and the weather conditions etc.. in ur area simply click on Norad and they will tell u all u need and then punch in info on ur device!

I do mine manually using the formula in the following link which seems hard but really isn't exterior ballistics this link also explains the basics! U may need to increase screen size on ur comp to read the formulas clearly!

Best Wishes
 

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Not all IIIA armor is created equal, Federal Spec" "FBI Protocol" armor that meets the most recent FBI standards. Mine is specifically is rated to stop 4 rounds of milsurp Tok ammo.

You'd have to be in a monsoon to get my panels to blow around like the panels in that video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not all IIIA armor is created equal, Federal Spec" "FBI Protocol" armor that meets the most recent FBI standards. Mine is specifically is rated to stop 4 rounds of milsurp Tok ammo.

You'd have to be in a monsoon to get my panels to blow around like the panels in that video.
NIJ certifies body armor levels. They have to be rated at the given level, but they can perform better than a given rating.
 

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Buffman, have you done this same SS198 test using a PS90? If so do you have a video link and if not could you? Really curious what a 10.4 and a 16 inch barrel does with this ammo into the gel. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not yet. I'm working on trying to get enough $$$ for a block and mold. I wanted to get away from pork since it's getting expensive, and I can't guarantee each shoulder is the same density/make up, etc..
 
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