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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am working with some guys who carry this as a sidearm and have spoken to them in depth about the 5.7 since I own one back home. They explained what makes the the ss198lf and ss190ap duty rounds and what makes the others plinking rounds. The ss197sr is a mostly american round its velocity is dumbed way down to ensure that at any range it will not punch kevlar pushing 1650 the round has trouble expanding and at their advice it should not be used as a self defense or duty round. They 5.7 does its damage by tumbling so as it turns the permanent cavity is determined by the length of the bullet. This is why the duty ammo does not expand and have very long bullets about twice the length of the standard bullets in civilian rounds also the increased velocity causes a very erratic and rapid tumble. This is counter to the american eagle which at its lower velocity only will tumble once and then continue inverted to the end of its path. The SS195lf uses a similar bullet to the ss198lf but at a lower velocity.
The skinny on the ss198lf is it is a long round about .85 inches with an aluminum core with the center of balance on the round is pushed further back. Its velocity is as fast as they can go without damage to their USG's and enough to tumble approximately once every 2.5-3 inches on a varying path. This creates not only a massive temporary wound channel but a sporadic permanent one. Evidence I was shown by the Belgiuns was of a local shot one time at aprox 27 meters the bullet entered 3 inches below the top of the sternum on the right side shattering this on impact it tore through severing the Brachiocephalic artery and damage to the brachiocephallic vein traveling down after through the lung and striking and fracturing his right pelvic bone before stopping in sub-dermal tissue in his left buttocks. From the ME's estimate the round had tumbled off axis approximately 4-7 times. Apparently he dropped quickly enough that the shooter didn't fire a second shot.
This may have been a fluke but even a fluke that does damage like that means that a normal round will do a substantial amount.
I have to re evaluate all my reloads which I loaded 33 grain varmint grenades. But I also ordered 4000 rounds of ss198lf directly from the rep for a lot cheaper than I can get them on gun broker.
 

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I too have used the varmint grenades in handloads as thy are similar in shape and weight to the ss195/198 bullet, even though they are designed to fragment violently upon impact rather than tumble. You can push the velocity a little further because of the extreme light weight.


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I am working with some guys who carry this as a sidearm and have spoken to them in depth about the 5.7 since I own one back home
Look around this section of the forum and you'll learn a lot more. :?
 

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The ss197sr is a mostly american round its velocity is dumbed way down to ensure that at any range it will not punch kevlar pushing 1650 the round has trouble expanding and at their advice it should not be used as a self defense or duty round.
Then they apparently have never seen the damage it does to soft tissue.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
does anyone know the length of the AE 40 gr bullets i was thinking of pulling them and actually getting them fast enough to do damage.
And I think and expanded ss197 still isn't creating almost an inch of permanent cavity.
These guys know their weapons pretty well and all the ammo, every single guy can explain the ballistics of each round they use and why their unit chose that round.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well since they are the only people I have ever met or heard of that have real world experience with the 5.7 I would say so. Shooting varmints and ballistic gel doesn't equal combat experience. And since its failure to be adapted by any US forces minus a few exceptions the only real life data out there will be the Belgian SFG and DAS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
okay so tell me where you get your real life data, the Houston SWAT, because as far as I know it hasnt been used in any other shootings that were reported. Besides Major Hassan's attack on FT Hood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thank you buffman, I appreciate that, I have to back and change the my original post we used a tape measure on one of thier pulled rounds to get my estimated overall length. Didnt have a set of calipers.
Don't think I will waste my time pulling the AE 40 grains I just enjoy my stock pile of the ss198
 

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But where is your documented proof, where is the Medical examiner report. At least news articles states it was used. I literally had hands on the ME report got to see the diagram.
We had a member who posted reports and photos of the victims. It was nothing that needed to be posted on the forum.

It's on the web, you can do your own research.
 
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My experiments with Clear Ballistics gelatin has illustrated what folks can expect from a PS90 with SS195, S197 & SS198:



Several others (Buffman, etc) have produced their own videos, which we should be grateful for.

I am just as interested in when the bullet stops as well as mortality information. It's one of the main reasons why I own both the Five-seveN and PS90...less likelihood of over-penetration
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think a big problem with gel tests is the lack of a hollow cavity for lungs and hard structures such as bone, I would like to know what the ss197sr would do on impact with a bone then the damage that follows behind that. How much velocity would it loose after dumping enough energy to pass through shattering the bone. Also I think that the idea that a tumble over expansion is a good one in this round due to its length and width. Fully expanded you are still looking at around .5 inches while a ss198/ss190/195 etc will be .85 across while tumbling off axis.
With a heaver and wider bullet expansion is key, but with lighter and thinner bullets tumbling seems to cause more damage. I know that as far as actually stopping power 2 shots 5 inches apart have a better chance to cause a neurological overload compared to 2 shots 1 inch apart. That's just anatomy and the way our nervous system works. Not saying that 2 shots into the heart or other vital organ wouldn't drop someone but the spread of the shots allows for the signal indication pain and damage will be received by the brain from two separate nerve bundles. This increases the chance of the brain simply switching off.
From what I got from the report the man fell pretty fast from a single shot, there were also reports of the same response to rounds fired during the Ft Hood shooting.
I am not hoping buddies have to shoot another person but if they do I would like to know about that report too.
 
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