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Discussion Starter · #222 ·
https://mp-pistol.com/mp-talk/72454-check-out-my-busted-m-p-9-a.html

Just saw this on the M&P Forum. Busted M&P striker. It happens.
Yes it has happened to other brands. The question is the rate of failure. Is it 1/100, 1/1,000, or 1/10,000 (or other)? The rate of reported failure is all we (the public) have to go by. This updated striker is breaking at a concerning rate, to me and to others who have voiced concern. I've searched other major brands and am not seeing similar rates of reported failure with them in recent time frame. I love my FN FNSes, but I don't personally have faith in the MIM strikers, that's why they all have machined ones. With machined, I'm confident of the striker's reliability! I just wish the new FN (509/FNS) pistols came from FN with machine now, like the FNS previously did.
 

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Hey guys. I had a 509 awhile back and liked it. It was near the beginning of the striker failure issues starting to surface so I got rid of it. It appears it’s still a pretty common issue and hasn’t been resolved yet?

Does anyone have a number of users calculated from online information of how widespread this issue is?

I’m wanting to get back into the 509 game but not if this striker issues aren’t resolved. I know APEX makes one now but not sure if I wanna go that route yet since it’s relatively new. I like things that are proven but it seems the 509 is still working on that.
 

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Here we go again! I received my first replacement striker from FN several months ago, now I found that my 2nd striker just broke while dry-firing with a Tipton snap cap. ALL of my dry-firing that I do is with snap caps, except when I break down the gun for cleaning, which is rare. I have about 150 LIVE rounds through the pistol, so it's not like it's getting the torture treatment. I am LIVID that they are producing such garbage! I will be contacting them and I no longer will be keeping this pistol when it gets fixed, because I should not have to spend $50 for an Apex product because FN can't figure out how to design a simple striker! FN has failed me for the last time...
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Maybe the problem is that you confess you rarely clean you firearm.

With only ~150 live rounds through the pistol, I think his point was that [in the course of ownership/cleaning] he didn't dry-fire the pistol [without snap caps] except to break-down/clean...thus misuse was not the cause for the breakage. The 509 manual acknowledges that dry fire is required to remove the upper slide for cleaning, but also warns against dry firing. I gather that this is a relatively new pistol to shojus, which hasn't required many cleanings.
You are correct, no need to clean if I haven't gotten the pistol dirty! I see a lot of people here trying to make excuses as to why FN is perfectly fine and why I am not doing things correctly, thus leading to this failure. It's a TERRIBLE design and FN should be ashamed to manufacture a striker that is prone to these failures. Nothing more to be said really... I have never used snap caps until I purchased this FN pistol, because I have never had a broken striker until this pistol and have been dry-firing pistols for years. Dry firing around your home is a safe and effective way to train without having to go to the range. It also has helped me to get used to using my RMR and I can now see the dot EVERY time I present my pistol to the intended target. Anyways, take care and be safe! 👍
 

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Here we go again! I received my first replacement striker from FN several months ago, now I found that my 2nd striker just broke while dry-firing with a Tipton snap cap. ALL of my dry-firing that I do is with snap caps, except when I break down the gun for cleaning, which is rare. I have about 150 LIVE rounds through the pistol, so it's not like it's getting the torture treatment. I am LIVID that they are producing such garbage! I will be contacting them and I no longer will be keeping this pistol when it gets fixed, because I should not have to spend $50 for an Apex product because FN can't figure out how to design a simple striker! FN has failed me for the last time...
https://fnforum.net/forums/attachme...ker-failure-20191130_171442_1575152736812.jpg

Do all your snap caps look like this? (click link above)

This snap cap doesn't look like it was doing much to stop/cushion the striker as it appears to have the center of the primer area beaten into a deep hole (maybe the picture just looks this way). Plus the center hole looks to be off center so if the snap cap rotates in the chamber (or is cycled through to a different clocking) then the striker firing pin end could be getting side loaded as it hits the snap cap hole.

I haven't ever had much luck with those plastic case, spring loaded snap caps for other than an occasional dry fire. They don't seem to hold up well at all to a lot of dry fire work.

I usually make my own snap caps from a fired round-- by de-priming, re-sizing, then putting a short length of wooden dowel under the seated bullet (to prevent bullet from reseeding farther into the case during use), then I cut a short section of high durometer rubber "O" ring & glue that into the primer hole, then use a razor blade to trim the "O" ring flush with the rear of the case. (makes a very durable long lasting snap cap)

I don't dry fire much but I have some snap caps (dummy rounds) that I made years ago & they are still solid in the primer area to properly arrest & slow the striker or firing pin after many years of dry fire testing after trigger work. (the homemade snap caps will outlast plastic spring loaded snap caps by many/many/many times, plus when/if the "O" ring section in the primer pocket gets a divot in it the "O" ring section can be scraped out a new one glued in.

I think that you can buy good brass case rubber-primer-area snap caps on E-Bay (much better than those plastic lightweight junk)

Bottom line here-- check your snap caps for having an intact spring loaded primer area, if the center has a divot, or deep hole, then replace the darn things as with holes or divots in the primer area of those snap caps are doing nothing to slow or stop your striker so it then stops hard, suddenly, & with great force.
That specific snap cap does indeed have an indentation from where the striker hits the cap. That will happen after about 15-20 strikes, and that area is soft metal and also under spring tension. The whole purpose of a snap cap is so that the striker won't impact the steel surface that has no give, and this snap cap has done its job perfectly. Sure, it could be replaced, but the area that's being struck is in the exact center of the area it's intended to strike, the photo makes it look off center, but it's not. Point being, NO striker should break like these 2 different strikers have done! I have dry fired using many other brands of pistols and this pistol is the only one that has broken like this, twice. I have Glocks that I've never used snap caps on, and not one broken striker, so maybe FN needs to polish up on their manufacturing process so that Apex doesn't need to make a product that fixes a poor design. Thanks for your feedback! 👍
 

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All seven of my FN striker fired guns now have the Apex heavy duty striker installed, and there have been no problems.
I'm glad Apex made a solid striker to correct the very problematic striker that FN produces. Having to spend $300-350 on strikers to make sure you don't break their fragile strikers is almost a smack to the face of FN customers, but I'm glad you have had success with the Apex striker! Take care
 

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That specific snap cap does indeed have an indentation from where the striker hits the cap. That will happen after about 15-20 strikes, and that area is soft metal and also under spring tension. The whole purpose of a snap cap is so that the striker won't impact the steel surface that has no give, and this snap cap has done its job perfectly. Sure, it could be replaced, but the area that's being struck is in the exact center of the area it's intended to strike, the photo makes it look off center, but it's not. Point being, NO striker should break like these 2 different strikers have done! I have dry fired using many other brands of pistols and this pistol is the only one that has broken like this, twice. I have Glocks that I've never used snap caps on, and not one broken striker, so maybe FN needs to polish up on their manufacturing process so that Apex doesn't need to make a product that fixes a poor design. Thanks for your feedback! 👍

I have serious doubts that a snap cap with a serious divot in the center is going to do much to slow the striker before it hits a hard stop in the slide as the pin end of the striker just doesn't stick out that far at full travel (hold the firing pin block plunger down then push hard on the rear of the striker to see the full travel to a hard stop.

Personally, I sure wouldn't use those snap caps in that condition but that is just me, if you are happy with they way they are currently preventing striker damage then by all means keep using them.
 

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shojus said:
I'm glad Apex made a solid striker to correct the very problematic striker that FN produces. Having to spend $300-350 on strikers to make sure you don't break their fragile strikers is almost a smack to the face of FN customers, but I'm glad you have had success with the Apex striker! Take care
The Apex strikers sell for under $50. Do you have 6 FNS/FN509 guns? Or are you planning on buying 3 and keeping three as backups?

I think the new FN strikers, which can be replaced under warranty (free of charge, including shipping both ways) sell for about the same amount when purchased from a vendor. Where is the $300-$350 figure coming from? I've got three FNS models, and all the strikers were replaced by FN at FN's expense (including shipping both ways). If any of those strikers fail, I'll give them another chance to do it right, and if I have failures, THEN I'll think about buying some APEX strikers.
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As I noted in another response on this subject, I'm not surprised that Apex's striker was machined rather than produced using the Metal Injection Molding technology (MIM) that FN used, as the costs of creating the molds used in MIM production can be very costly. (One figure I've heard is $75,000 for a relatively simple part design). It would not be cost effective for Apex to build their striker using MIM for a product when there are relatively few FNS/FN509 guns in the market yet, and Apex, while a very reputable firm, is not a household name for many shooting enthusiasts.

The problem with MIM parts is that there is the possibility of voids in the materials, and they're seldom visible.W ith the right measurement tools, like an ultra-sensitive scales, voids can sometimes be identified.

The problem with machined parts is that, even with computer controls, the cutting tools can dull and not be caught, resulting in parts not not quite up to par. f the parts are created by a machinist rather computer control, cuttung tiiks can still dull and human error can be a problem.

Whether the issue of FN Striker durability has been resolved or not still seems to be an open question, as some of the NEW FN-designed strikers have thousands of rounds through them without failures, while a relatively small number of others have failed.
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The strikers are marked with a number and are visually slightly different, and I've not seen whether specific numbers/versions are associated with the failures, or whether the failures were experienced with all versions of the new striker design. But it appears that there may be as many as three versions of the replacement striker. It's not clear whether the latest version has had failures.
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Some if the first production Apex strikers also failed, too -- but not all. It appears that Apex was trying make a more robust striker and may have used specs in their version of the striker that didn't work properly in ALL FNS models -- due to some differences/variances in the FN specs between old and newer versions of the guns. None of the early APEX strikers broke, but some of them just didn't work.

Prior to FN's notice and voluntary upgrade there were NO PROBLEMS with FNS/FN509 strikers, so we know that FN knows how to build durable strikers. A heat-treatment mistake seems a likely culprit for the ones that failed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #230 ·
The Apex strikers sell for under $50. Do you have 6 FNS/FN509 guns? Or are you planning on buying 3 and keeping three as backups?

I think the new FN strikers, which can be replaced under warranty (free of charge, including shipping both ways) sell for about the same amount when purchased from a vendor. Where is the $300-$350 figure coming from?
From here... 7 x $50/striker (approx.) from Apex

All seven of my FN striker fired guns now have the Apex heavy duty striker installed, and there have been no problems.
I'm glad Apex made a solid striker to correct the very problematic striker that FN produces. Having to spend $300-350 on strikers to make sure you don't break their fragile strikers is almost a smack to the face of FN customers, but I'm glad you have had success with the Apex striker! Take care




........

Prior to FN's notice and voluntary upgrade there were NO PROBLEMS with FNS/FN509 strikers, so we know that FN knows how to build durable strikers. A heat-treatment mistake seems a likely culprit for the ones that failed.
Exactly! Which is why I stick with the original machined part.
 

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I have other pistols to use for carry, but it's upsetting that they are making such garbage. I must have dry fired Glocks and S&W pistols millions of times without using any snap caps, and I have yet to have ever broken any brand of striker besides my latest FN 509T. I truly think the Apex striker is probably the fix for this disaster of a gun, but paying an additional $50 is a slap in the face after paying $700 for this pistol. Anyways, interested in a lightly used FN 509 Tactical? 😂
How much??




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The Apex strikers sell for under $50. Do you have 6 FNS/FN509 guns? Or are you planning on buying 3 and keeping three as backups?

I think the new FN strikers, which can be replaced under warranty (free of charge, including shipping both ways) sell for about the same amount when purchased from a vendor. Where is the $300-$350 figure coming from? I've got three FNS models, and all the strikers were replaced by FN at FN's expense (including shipping both ways). If any of those strikers fail, I'll give them another chance to do it right, and if I have failures, THEN I'll think about buying some APEX strikers.
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As I noted in another response on this subject, I'm not surprised that Apex's striker was machined rather than produced using the Metal Injection Molding technology (MIM) that FN used, as the costs of creating the molds used in MIM production can be very costly. (One figure I've heard is $75,000 for a relatively simple part design). It would not be cost effective for Apex to build their striker using MIM for a product when there are relatively few FNS/FN509 guns in the market yet, and Apex, while a very reputable firm, is not a household name for many shooting enthusiasts.

The problem with MIM parts is that there is the possibility of voids in the materials, and they're seldom visible.W ith the right measurement tools, like an ultra-sensitive scales, voids can sometimes be identified.

The problem with machined parts is that, even with computer controls, the cutting tools can dull and not be caught, resulting in parts not not quite up to par. f the parts are created by a machinist rather computer control, cuttung tiiks can still dull and human error can be a problem.

Whether the issue of FN Striker durability has been resolved or not still seems to be an open question, as some of the NEW FN-designed strikers have thousands of rounds through them without failures, while a relatively small number of others have failed.
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The strikers are marked with a number and are visually slightly different, and I've not seen whether specific numbers/versions are associated with the failures, or whether the failures were experienced with all versions of the new striker design. But it appears that there may be as many as three versions of the replacement striker. It's not clear whether the latest version has had failures.
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Some if the first production Apex strikers also failed, too -- but not all. It appears that Apex was trying make a more robust striker and may have used specs in their version of the striker that didn't work properly in ALL FNS models -- due to some differences/variances in the FN specs between old and newer versions of the guns. None of the early APEX strikers broke, but some of them just didn't work.

Prior to FN's notice and voluntary upgrade there were NO PROBLEMS with FNS/FN509 strikers, so we know that FN knows how to build durable strikers. A heat-treatment mistake seems a likely culprit for the ones that failed.
You cannot measure microscopic voids with a “very sensitive scale.”

You will also have less refined grain structure with an MIM part.

Proper Machine & Tool Maintenance will resolve any poor results from what you’ve described. It’s all about QA/QC

There were no “early Apex striker failures” to my knowledge.

There were geometry discrepancies that resulted in an initial release recall.

Bottom Line

All things being equal a part CNC machined from a forging will be stronger with better fatigue strength to boot.

BUY THE APEX STRIKER & THE APEX EXTRACTOR.

Then go shoot the crap out of your pistols.


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shojus said:
I'm glad Apex made a solid striker to correct the very problematic striker that FN produces. Having to spend $300-350 on strikers to make sure you don't break their fragile strikers is almost a smack to the face of FN customers, but I'm glad you have had success with the Apex striker! Take care
The Apex strikers sell for under $50. Do you have 6 FNS/FN509 guns? Or are you planning on buying 3 and keeping three as backups?

I think the new FN strikers, which can be replaced under warranty (free of charge, including shipping both ways) sell for about the same amount when purchased from a vendor. Where is the $300-$350 figure coming from? I've got three FNS models, and all the strikers were replaced by FN at FN's expense (including shipping both ways). If any of those strikers fail, I'll give them another chance to do it right, and if I have failures, THEN I'll think about buying some APEX strikers.
.
As I noted in another response on this subject, I'm not surprised that Apex's striker was machined rather than produced using the Metal Injection Molding technology (MIM) that FN used, as the costs of creating the molds used in MIM production can be very costly. (One figure I've heard is $75,000 for a relatively simple part design). It would not be cost effective for Apex to build their striker using MIM for a product when there are relatively few FNS/FN509 guns in the market yet, and Apex, while a very reputable firm, is not a household name for many shooting enthusiasts.

The problem with MIM parts is that there is the possibility of voids in the materials, and they're seldom visible.W ith the right measurement tools, like an ultra-sensitive scales, voids can sometimes be identified.

The problem with machined parts is that, even with computer controls, the cutting tools can dull and not be caught, resulting in parts not not quite up to par. f the parts are created by a machinist rather computer control, cuttung tiiks can still dull and human error can be a problem.

Whether the issue of FN Striker durability has been resolved or not still seems to be an open question, as some of the NEW FN-designed strikers have thousands of rounds through them without failures, while a relatively small number of others have failed.
.
The strikers are marked with a number and are visually slightly different, and I've not seen whether specific numbers/versions are associated with the failures, or whether the failures were experienced with all versions of the new striker design. But it appears that there may be as many as three versions of the replacement striker. It's not clear whether the latest version has had failures.
.
Some if the first production Apex strikers also failed, too -- but not all. It appears that Apex was trying make a more robust striker and may have used specs in their version of the striker that didn't work properly in ALL FNS models -- due to some differences/variances in the FN specs between old and newer versions of the guns. None of the early APEX strikers broke, but some of them just didn't work.

Prior to FN's notice and voluntary upgrade there were NO PROBLEMS with FNS/FN509 strikers, so we know that FN knows how to build durable strikers. A heat-treatment mistake seems a likely culprit for the ones that failed.
I quoted a person who has purchased those strikers. Read my quoted context above my post. 😁
 

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Mjonir01 said:
There were no “early Apex striker failures” to my knowledge.

There were geometry discrepancies that resulted in an initial release recall.
From the Apex announcement for Apex's Chief Operating Officer:

We found an issue with our Heavy-Duty Strikers for the FN 509 just yesterday afternoon right after USPS left with the first batch of strikers. The issue has to do with the striker blocking surface being in the wrong location. In our efforts to assure that our striker is absolutely drop safe, we may have gone a bit too far with that safety surface to the point that in just the right circumstance/combination of parts, the striker block will not fully disengage and the striker may fail to dimple the primer sufficiently to fire a round.

There were no structural failures, but there was a functional failure: the earliest Apex strikers didn't always work. (The failure to function may not occur in all FN509s.) That was the "failure" I was referencing -- but I probably should have been more careful in how I used that ugly term "failure."

I also said that both Apex and FN had outstanding reputations in the industry, and even the best sometimes screw up.
 

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So I received a call from FN today after they received my 509T for it's 2nd striker failure, and they gave me 3 options. They said they could fix my pistol and send it back this week, send me a brand new pistol or refund 100% of what I initially paid. I was quite surprised that they actually went that far to take care of the issue, and I commend them for giving me those options! I chose for a refund, as I no longer feel confident with this firearm. They had me send in my receipt and they are apparently cutting me a check this week. I really hope they get this issue resolved, because it's a great firearm, minus the one big issue. Thanks for everyone's comments!
 

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So I received a call from FN today after they received my 509T for it's 2nd striker failure, and they gave me 3 options. They said they could fix my pistol and send it back this week, send me a brand new pistol or refund 100% of what I initially paid. I was quite surprised that they actually went that far to take care of the issue, and I commend them for giving me those options! I chose for a refund, as I no longer feel confident with this firearm. They had me send in my receipt and they are apparently cutting me a check this week. I really hope they get this issue resolved, because it's a great firearm, minus the one big issue. Thanks for everyone's comments!
That’s great CS, but I wouldn’t trust the weapon or a new one after two failures of the same part over and over. It’s just a damn shame they don’t issue a recall and end this matter altogether with a properly manufactured part.
 

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Wow! That is really great Customer Service. That’s really good on FN.

Some thoughts that came up as a result of their refund offer:

Is this, in a way, their way of possibly admitting there is a serious problem here? I say this because I am shocked they’re offering you a refund and in a way they could be saying that they can’t long-term fix this issue for you with your firearm. Sure, maybe this is an isolated issue with the repeated failure but it’s definitely not an isolated issue as a whole. Lots of reports of this failure, including pew-tubers. It’s such a bummer cuz I like the 509 and wanted to try it again after some time for FN to sort the issue out, it appears even if they do that they are not quickly going about it.
 

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Wow! That is really great Customer Service. That’s really good on FN.

Some thoughts that came up as a result of their refund offer:

Is this, in a way, their way of possibly admitting there is a serious problem here? I say this because I am shocked they’re offering you a refund and in a way they could be saying that they can’t long-term fix this issue for you with your firearm. Sure, maybe this is an isolated issue with the repeated failure but it’s definitely not an isolated issue as a whole. Lots of reports of this failure, including pew-tubers. It’s such a bummer cuz I like the 509 and wanted to try it again after some time for FN to sort the issue out, it appears even if they do that they are not quickly going about it.
I thought that same thing myself, because the first thing the lady asked me was if I just wanted a refund. She said since it's been in twice for the same issue that she would be more than happy to do that. I asked if I decided to just get it fixed if they would send me a new firearm, and she then said if I wanted to go that route they could do that too. I wrote a letter when I sent my pistol in, and I gave them links to videos and forums, etc. so that they KNOW for a fact there are issues with this striker, and hopefully they correct the problems for good!
 

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Wow! That is really great Customer Service. That’s really good on FN.

Some thoughts that came up as a result of their refund offer:

Is this, in a way, their way of possibly admitting there is a serious problem here? I say this because I am shocked they’re offering you a refund and in a way they could be saying that they can’t long-term fix this issue for you with your firearm. Sure, maybe this is an isolated issue with the repeated failure but it’s definitely not an isolated issue as a whole. Lots of reports of this failure, including pew-tubers. It’s such a bummer cuz I like the 509 and wanted to try it again after some time for FN to sort the issue out, it appears even if they do that they are not quickly going about it.
I thought that same thing myself, because the first thing the lady asked me was if I just wanted a refund. She said since it's been in twice for the same issue that she would be more than happy to do that. I asked if I decided to just get it fixed if they would send me a new firearm, and she then said if I wanted to go that route they could do that too. I wrote a letter when I sent my pistol in, and I gave them links to videos and forums, etc. so that they KNOW for a fact there are issues with this striker, and hopefully they correct the problems for good!
Well thank you for documenting this and informing FN. Hopefully good changes will come as a result.
 
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