FN Herstal Firearms banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As recommended by some members I ordered a Geissele suppressor alignment rod . I am attaching a Saker 7.62 break for my Scar 17.

My alignment is slightly off center, but it does NOT touch. Just out of curiosity, I used the alignment rod on my GAP 10. It is in the exact same spot as the Scar. I haven't had an issue with it, but there is definitely a POI shift with and without the suppressor.

Questions:

1. Is it the rod?
2. Is it the suppressor?
3. Is it the shims?

Any thoughts? Also, if I can improve the alignment somehow, will that positively effect the POI?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
You are going to get a POI shift no matter what. Where there could be a problem is if you are getting an excessive amount of POI shift. It shouldn't be any more than a couple of inches of that. I assume you are not getting baffle strikes because that would probably be the topic of the thread if you were. I didn't use an alignment rod so I can't tell you if its normal especially because I don't know how much off center you are talking about. Did you use that gemtech adapter you linked in the other thread? If you did I would be inclined to blame that before I would blame the Supressor. Also how many shims did you have to use before it was timed? It's as Jeremy said- the more variables you add when mounting a Supressor the more of a chance it will be misaligned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Kam. No, the Gemtech has not showed up yet, probably monday. I am a little reluctant to use it because of exactly what you mentioned. I am a big fan of having the fewest variables. I love the accuracy of the Scar and don't want to mess with it if I can help it.

When I used a single shim, it timed correctly, but it failed the alignment test with the rod. It needs a washer.. something solid before a shim. I could get it to work with nearly all the shims, but like Jeremy said.. the fewer the better. I emailed Jeremy to ask if they had any of those washers that were used in Patton's thread.

I've been using my suppressor on my GAP10 and Tavor just fine before I bought the alignment rod. Now its making me wonder if I can reduce the POI by getting a better alignment? Right now its only a few inches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,628 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Kam. Yes, the POI is repeatable. I ran out of acetone, so I will pick some up and clean everything better as suggested. I'll post some picture after I get the Gemtech, that way we can compare.

Also, what is the best way to make sure I have 30 torque lbs? I am using the simple wrench that came with my suppressor. I don't want to over torque.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
Thanks Kam. Yes, the POI is repeatable. I ran out of acetone, so I will pick some up and clean everything better as suggested. I'll post some picture after I get the Gemtech, that way we can compare.

Also, what is the best way to make sure I have 30 torque lbs? I am using the simple wrench that came with my suppressor. I don't want to over torque.
I would recommend using a Torque wrench also I sent you a PM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
876 Posts
......
........
I've been using my suppressor on my GAP10 and Tavor just fine before I bought the alignment rod. Now its making me wonder if I can reduce the POI by getting a better alignment? Right now its only a few inches.
If you are building a perfectly level and square house it starts with the foundation. I carry that mentality over to installing muzzle break & flash hiders that a suppressor attaches to. I know i'm a anal perfectionist but it makes me sleep better. I honestly don't have a POI issue when I use my rifle suppressors. I shoot with Surefire suppressors. I get more POI shift from weather conditions. I know some of you might say I am full of it or crazy but when I use a suppressor I get much tighter groups.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoax001

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Machine Airsoft gun Shooting sport Shooting

This is The Alignment rod in the break
Machine Auto part Rim Machine tool Metal

Lens Photography Monocular

This is the alignment with many shims. The alignment got better with trail and error, but you cannot start with a thin shim, because it does not provide enough support. In order to use the thickest shim in the rear I had to use nearly all the shims. Thanks to Jeremy from Silencer Shop for all his help.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Gemtech barley passes the bore alignment test. As you can see, it does not actually reach the barrel shoulder in the rear. I don't feel comfortable with this alignment. Plus, the extra weight, length, etc. make the Gemtech unsuitable for this application. There is really no need. The guys are right, just go with the shims and a dab of Rockset. Hope this saves some of you $88 for the Gemtech.
Auto part Machine Rim Machine tool Wheel

Material property Subcompact car Cosmetics
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
Excellent work Hoax. Glad to see it all worked out for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoax001

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
POI doesn't necessarily have anything to do with group size. It can be a tighter group and be 5" lower and 5" right of POI without the suppressor. I personally have never seen 0 POI change from unsuppressed and suppressed. There will always be some. Some suppressors and mounts have less then others and it varies.
If you are building a perfectly level and square house it starts with the foundation. I carry that mentality over to installing muzzle break & flash hiders that a suppressor attaches to. I know i'm a anal perfectionist but it makes me sleep better. I honestly don't have a POI issue when I use my rifle suppressors. I shoot with Surefire suppressors. I get more POI shift from weather conditions. I know some of you might say I am full of it or crazy but when I use a suppressor I get much tighter groups.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
POI doesn't necessarily have anything to do with group size. It can be a tighter group and be 5" lower and 5" right of POI without the suppressor. I personally have never seen 0 POI change from unsuppressed and suppressed. There will always be some. Some suppressors and mounts have less then others and it varies.
Very true, I have shot over 50 different rifle silencers and have never seen a 0 POI shift. I've seen it be 2/10th of an inch but that is about the best I've seen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
So about 1/4" for 1 suppressor out of 50, that's not great odds, lol. I'm guessing it's not the same 1/4" POI shift on every host just 1 particular one? As it's probably most often said is if the POI shift is repeatable is the most important every time the suppressor is mounted on the host.
Very true, I have shot over 50 different rifle silencers and have never seen a 0 POI shift. I've seen it be 2/10th of an inch but that is about the best I've seen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
This is a tricky subject because it does depend on the gun more than the silencer. Basically what I was saying is that there will almost always be some POI shift. Wither you adjust for it or not is another thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
The Gemtech barley passes the bore alignment test. As you can see, it does not actually reach the barrel shoulder in the rear. I don't feel comfortable with this alignment. Plus, the extra weight, length, etc. make the Gemtech unsuitable for this application. There is really no need. The guys are right, just go with the shims and a dab of Rockset. Hope this saves some of you $88 for the Gemtech.
View attachment 39505
View attachment 39506
Wow that looks really bad, I would definitely not have shot that for fear of a baffle strike. You look good to go with just the shims and not that Gemtech device.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top