[RaiderAviation]

Gentelmen,

I am one of those dreaded "Army Contractors"

At a friend of mine's shop I saw a PS90 he had for sale.

Cost is not an issue and the compact size really appeals to me.

My specific questions are as follows:

Are there many small parts that can be lost in the dirt during MX?

What is a reasonable engagement range for heavily clothed human targets. I am wondering in specific, how it compares with the 5.56 fired from a short barreled M4.

How does the weapon hold up in dusty conditions?

How is the weapon's overall reliability?

What is the responsiveness of FN to technical issues?

I will have an APO addy that parts can be shipped to as well. This weapon would be used daily but not neccessarly fired every day for the next 1 to 3 years. It would basically be a companion to my uniform.

I am looking for some no-nonsence advise from a very conservative perspective. I am not plinking with this weapon but rather it will see heavy use as a PDW for Heliborne and fixed wing missions.

I am not a collector but rather an end user looking for a good tool to fill a niche requirement.

I deploy in two weeks and would like to make a decision this week to get one if it is suitable. I was also considering the venerable M1 carbine with a folding stock or an M4.

I thank you in advance for your input.

Sean

 

[Iraq Ninja]

Welcome to the forum!

Not sure what an "Army Contractor" is, but I guess you mean you are deploying as a private contractor. Welcome to the club. Are you going be in a support role, or security role? DynCorp by chance?

First of all, I don't know how you are going to get the weapon into country, unless you have access to a diplomatic pouch. Next, ammo may be a problem. Lastly, I would not choose it as my first choice in Astan. Go with the M4 that you will be issued, or something larger in 7.62. Trust me, when things go wrong, you can never have enough ammo. You will not get any 5.7 from the American troops.

If I was in a chopper in Astan, I would want a 5.56 carbine, a Glock, and a sniper rifle. If I go down, I want to start hurting the bad guys from a long ways out if possible. M1 carbine is also a very poor choice.

 

[Iraq Ninja]

You can have any non registered gun parts sent to your APO. You can't send any gun parts back at all. I had to sell off all my kit in Iraq except my EOTECH and a few small parts that I flew home with.

When you get into Astan, you can buy weapons on the black market. BUT, most companies will not allow you to have privately owned weapons, especially if you are on a DOD contract. No private guns, no booze, no porn.

So, what I am trying to say, based on the little information you provided, is to forget about having a PS90 in the sandbox. Not a good choice and I doubt you can even get it into country, let alone carry it.

 

[Turbozag]

I'd go with the M4.
I own both.
Much more firepower, common replacement parts, nato caliber ammo etc etc etc...

Personally, I'd opt for an Armalite AR-10 in .308 if it were not too heavy.

I have a carbine AR-10 and love it. And .308 is a whole nother dimension in stopping power over the previously mentioned calibers.

If you do take an AR-10, be sure to take extra magazines, extra bolt, complete lower parts kit, etc...

Good luck and be careful.

 

[LOWMANJASON]

HMM...FISHY

 

[devildoc]

Easy answer NO.

I know others here have other opinions on this issue, but I don't think any contractors of any sort should carry weapons in IRAQ or Afgan. If you want to carry a weapon in war zones raise your hand, swear allegance, and dawn a uniform. Otherwise you are a MERC. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

 

[Iraq Ninja]

Low,

This is probably his first gig, and he don't know how its done. Only guys I knew who could fly weapons and ammo into Iraq freely was BW. But, they had the big State Department contract and needed weapons asap back in 04. Us other guys had to do with Aks until out paperwork for importation was approved. We were going to buy HKs, but the German government refused to send them, because they didn't support the war!

I had a chance to get a nice HK USP in 45 with a matching suppressor for cheap, but I would have been sent home if I was caught with it. I think the whole set was for 800...

 

[Iraq Ninja]

Doc,

Does the oath expire once one leaves the military? I am still protecting and defending. I have a DOD card that says I am a DOD contractor. I fall under the UCMJ, article one, etc. One of the awards I received had to be approved by the Secretary of the Army. When I got hurt (twice) and was treated as a DOD contractor and received benefits from the Us Government. The families of my dead friends also received benefits from the US. I don't think I am a merc, just an American helping out.

Now, there are other nationalities working for the US government which may be better described as mercs.

I will agres that the definition of what a merc is has evolved over the past few years...

 

[devildoc]

Ninja, I have some friends of mine that took unfriendly fire from contractors in Iraq so it's real personal to me, but to answer your question you can answer it for yourself

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1)
Adopted on 8 June 1977 by the Diplomatic Conference on the Reaffirmation and Development of
International Humanitarian Law applicable in Armned Conflicts
entry into force 7 December 1979, in accordance with Article 95


Article 47.-Mercenaries
1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
2. A mercenary is any person who:
(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) Does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) Is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) Has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

If you answer yes to this than you are a MERC. specifically (a),(b), and (c) but all apply.

 

[RaiderAviation]

Just what I was afraid of :-(

Gents,

I limited the scope of my questions to attempt to avoid the runaway train syndrome that is a hazard with online forums.

For the record, I have taken the oath and served for 11 years. I do not worry about getting the item in-country as it is no problem for me. Ammo as well, is no problem for me.

Foolish assumptions were readily made and we all know what assumptions do.

I carry an M21 and a sidearm that have served me well for more than 15 years.

I was simply curious and do not have time to window shop. My questions were nothing more than a curiosity of seeing something new on the shelf that I may carry instead of the M4 I use now to bridge the rifle - handgun gap.

My experience has taught me well to profit from the success and failure of others. If felt a forum dedicated to the weapon would be an efficient means to gain knowledge.

Best regards,

Sean

 

[Iraq Ninja]

Sean,

Did you clarify with your company about the weapon policy? I still say that you will not be able to bring a weapon over. Feel free to PM me if you want to. I think I might know what you will be doing.

 

[devildoc]

Hey, RaiderAviation I took your question as a very nonspecific question akin to; I want to build a house? can I use a screwdriver?

So again, My answer is NO I would not take a PS90 to a war zone.
Now a P90 is a hole other thing depending on what I'm doing there and what the mission calls for.

Do not compare the 5.7x28 to the 5.56 because one is a pistol round and one is a rifle round. So the 5.56 will always win that issue.

If you are comparing the 5.7 to the 9mm than yes the 5.7 is better IMO.

Last but not least if you are or were a sniper then give a call down to YPG, they field tested the P90's as well as the guy's at Bragg I beleave. They can tell you more about the ss190 rounds performance.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Easy answer NO.

I know others here have other opinions on this issue, but I don't think any contractors of any sort should carry weapons in IRAQ or Afgan. If you want to carry a weapon in war zones raise your hand, swear allegance, and dawn a uniform. Otherwise you are a MERC. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

A bit stiff there grasshopper.

I may be going to Iraq as a Dept of the Army Civilian or Contractor. I already did my 20 with the uniform but the Uncle is looking for qualified personnel to fill the gaps left by the Clinton era of ridding our country of 40% of its military firepower.

With the information provided, you can not judge what the original posters requirements for service to this country are so to sum it up - no comment is better than the one you made.

Incidently, the position that I will possibly take DOES require me to be armed and work side by side with military personnel. THIS WILL NOT MAKE ME A MERC!

To Sean:

Thank you for your pending service to our Country. As I understand the current regulations, if you are a Govt Civilian or Contractor, you are not allowed to bring you own. You will be issued what they want you to have. I already looked into this and the rules are quite specific. NO PERSONAL FIREARM allowed.

Given the potential for confrontation, I think that you are going to have to stay within the 'issues' that are provided.

 

[LOWMANJASON]

like i said befor, fishy, as in something dont jive. thats all im saying

 

[Iraq Ninja]

Security company clients often require their weapons to be used. This is to make sure everyone has a properly functioning weapon. You would not want to have a client hurt because half the team had Ak47s that broke down during a fight. Likewise, you can only use company provided ammo. If you had an issued Glock 19, and if State Department caught you with a Glock 17 mag, you could be fired. since you were supposed to have a 19 mag. They get real anal about such stuff.

We were stuck using PRVI PARTIZAN because that was the only thing on the market. My company didn't want to use GI ball because they could not account for each round. Because we could not get PRVI in country (so they thought), then they can say how many rounds were fired, etc. We had to report any rounds fired or lost.

One company was kicked off the Base in Tallil because they had a RPG in one of their vehicles. That was a costly mistake.

BTW, one company lost all their contracts in 2006. Their Colt M4s which were purchased by the US Government were locked up and later destroyed, even though there were other US Government contractors who could have used them! I am talking A LOT of rifles! The excuse was to that it was just too much paperwork to do the transfer.

So, my point is that there is a lot of rules and red tape in regards to weapons.

 

[Thermallator]

I have unlocked the topic - PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. Assume everyone is legit. There is a lot of valuable intell in this thread and I was asked to reopen it for further debate. I do not want this to deprecate to a d**k swinging contest.

Thanks,

-TH

 

[ElCidTx]

Okay, that's where I come in.

Plan on bringing sunscreen. And lots of it. Not the cheap kind you buy in a gas station, but something from your local pharmacy, or from a specialty running store that will work when you sweat. Nothing says rookie like baby scented SPF15 in a professional environment.

Next, burn every song you've ever heard onto an mp3 and put that on an external hard drive. Shouldn't cost you more than $110 at Fry's or Best Buy. When you're jonesin' for culture, music is your friend and with an external HD and an mp3 player, you've got a fix. Even the worst days can be cured with a little music at days end.

Make 3 copies of your passport. One left at home. One backup with you, and the other with a friend elsewhere.

If you have any enemies, call em up and offer them a truce. Not that you really feel that way, but you don't want them busting a move on your girl while you're out. Then when you get back, get even with em anyway. Being gone will just make the payback that much sweeter.

If you're married, get some sweet lovin in before you leave.

If you're single, call up every girl you know and tell her she was 'the one' and see if it works. Even if you're on the fence about her. Don't give me any whining about this, you've got to try and cash in here while you can. That means even if you're only going for two weeks. The whole point is that you DON'T KNOW. Chicks dig that sympathy bit. If you don't come back, you'll hate yourself for not doing this. Just trust me.

Also, bring extra of things that can be trafficked, and no, I'm not talking about heroin. I mean data CD's, flash memory, etc. Be the dude others turn to for help.

And last and most important thing. If you get in a tight spot, just make sure it's not a friendly and shoot, maim, or kill until you're out of it. Don't get caught up in the politics or worrying about legality. Just try to do the right thing at the beginning and if you're in a gray area, just say you tried.

The most important thing about the whole trip is making it home.

 

[workingman1976]

Easy answer NO.

I know others here have other opinions on this issue, but I don't think any contractors of any sort should carry weapons in IRAQ or Afgan. If you want to carry a weapon in war zones raise your hand, swear allegance, and dawn a uniform. Otherwise you are a MERC. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

I disagree most of the contractors are former military. Not only are the ex military, but former S.F. or M.P. S.P. take your pick do some research for you comment on contractors thanks ( I. E., I am ex army, and I got family and old army buddies that are employed by security contractors) i would of done it as well (550 bucks a day min.), but I talked it over with my daughter (she had enough of me being gone I.E. 6 years of the military was enough for her)

 

[devildoc]

Workingman1976, You made my point. you said "i would of done it as well (550 bucks a day min.), Exactly! Being motivated by the money is the definition of a MERC and NOT a patriot.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Workingman1976, You made my point. you said "i would of done it as well (550 bucks a day min.), Exactly! Being motivated by the money is the definition of a MERC and NOT a patriot.

I disagree 100% with his statement.

The money is just an add on. The current position that I am looking at pays somewhere in the vicinity of $170K per year, less the time differential (overtive) pay and that will cap at about $250K per year total (taxable). This money does not make me a MERC. It makes me a well paid government employee of the United States who can fill a void in the Military Intelligence field that was created by the loss of military jobs by the downsizing of the military forces. You can thank Bill Clinton and the democratic congress of the early 90's for this.

By the way, if the Armed Forces had the personnel that it required to do combat and provide security to the United States interest worldwide, we should have about 6+ million people in the armed forces. Seing as we only have about 2 million there now, someone has to fill the void. Now, I would not do it for any less money than what I am being offered because MY SKILLS ARE WORTH THAT MUCH!

Incidently, I am a PATIOT who is willing, even at 52 years of age and after 20 years of military service, to separate from my wife and children for a period of time, live in crappy conditions under hostile conditions, and put my life at risk to AID my fellow soldiers/airmen/marines and sailors do their job.

Your premise that money is the issue that makes former military and/or qualified personnel MERC's is wholeheartly unfounded.