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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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We have been discussing this very subject in recent posts, at least now LEA's will consider the possible consequences before conducting such raids since legal precedence has been established. It should be noted, I have the utmost sympathy for the Deputy and his family but noted as well his fellow deputies were unable to confirm if their identifying themselves was heard and understood. I have to applaud them for their courage in speaking the truth. It is somewhat surprising the small amount of seized marijuana, not typical of a dealer by any means more so personal use. Here in South Florida drug dealers turn whole houses into growing facilities and our LEA's do not generally raid them in such fashion. All I can say, a grand jury has spoken, legal precedence established and at least one LEA will amend their tactics.
 

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I see the boys over on GlockTalk are getting their panties in a bunch over this.
The COP forum is filled with them saying it's crap the guy wasn't charged...
 

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"The search warrant returns listed two marijuana plants in planters and eight marijuana plants under grow lights as some of the property seized from Magee's home but did not include their height. DeGuerin described them as two six-inch plants and some seedlings, while Renken said Magee had a growing operation of hydroponic marijuana producing between 4 ounces and 5 pounds of the drug."

Legalize it- Decriminalize it.... Just another victim in the war on drugs and pissing away our tax dollars.
 

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Well well well...
 

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If anyone, LEO or not comes into my home without a knock, brother their going down, down to china town. And where I come from we have a motto. It is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I feel bad for the LEO but LEO(s)s are going to far with searches and gaining access into homes without proper procedures and this is a problem.

For me I live in the middle of no where. With dogs that will literally kill you. So the chances of someone just walking up to my door is almost impossible without me hearing. Unless it's Seal Team 6. Considering you would have to kill the dogs to get to me and by that time my SCAR or FN 5.7 is ready to rock n roll. Oh did I mention I have 10,000 volts of pulsing hi tensile cattle fencing that will knock you to your knees that surrounds my land?
 

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McCrapper, I have to say that just a freepass for marijuana I don't believe will be a good thing. I understand that it has medicinal uses, and even recreational use that some wish to have, but the experiences I have with many stoners is not something I wish to endorse.

Many of the individuals that use it do so because they are unhappy with the burdens of everyday life. It helps them take a vacation from giving a damn that their lives suck, and they eventually get to the point where they would rather stay on a permanent vacation from these feelings than actually trying to get their lives together. I believe that legalizing marijuana, at least the way most of the potheads i know want, would lead to an increase in the people who are living like leaches in this country. "My life sucks, I can't get a decent job, I'm living in government housing and feed my family from government assistance, but I smoke this blunt, and I'm happy, I don't care anymore."

These people are the weak-minded ones that sell off everything they can to afford another bag, and then steal from their family and friends and strangers to pay for their "recreational" use. They've numbed themselves from giving a damn, about anything, and they turn into sociopaths.

Contrary to hollywood stereotypes, many potheads are not pacifists who have a carefree attitude, and I've known more than a few people who get literally physically violent if someone ruins their high, AKA the "buzzkill". I've also known potheads who get violently angry and start breaking stuff and lose their cool if they have no forseeable way of avoiding staying sober. They might not have a physical addiction to marijuana, but the psychological need to escape can very well resemble addiction. I lucked out growing up, one of my bestfriends lost a girlfriend he was crazy over when we were in 9th grade, and he went into a downward spiral with drugs, and it all started with weed. Seeing him fall, and seeing how pointless (and even damaging for myself) it was to try and help, was the biggest incentive for me to stay away from that stuff. He eventually came out of his purple haze when he had a daughter, I'm happy that he was man enough to do so, I know people who aren't, and turn into even bigger pieces of crap after they have kids.

Now, if responsible people (read people who can prove their lives are not a mess) are allowed to use it responsibly, and businesses are allowed to dictate that they do not want users working for them (IE, weekly piss-tests if they so choose, and if someone pops positive they are fired and other businesses can access this information when considering hiring someone), and efforts are made to ensure that people with jobs that require a certain degree of responsibility (doctors, teachers, law enforcement, judges, people who are involved in safety-sensitive jobs like construction etc) do not use, then I MIGHT be willing to concede.

And I'm one of those people who doesn't buy into the pothead propaganda that it's harmless. Psychologists are pretty damn sure that repeated use leads to schizophrenia, memory loss, and other negative effects. Then there are the medical biologists that still say that THC stores in the fat cells in the reproductive glands and can cause congenital defects. The last thing I want to do is condone making people crazy, forgetful, or screwed up before they're even born.

IMO, the people that push for the legalization of marijuana are as uninformed as those who wish to make firearms illegal. They mean well they just don't realize just how false some of the propaganda they're receiving is, and while I don't believe that naivete should be criminalized, it can still be extremely dangerous, and being purposefully naive is criminal.

Back on topic, I hate that the point which we have been discussing lately regarding the conduct of LEAs in this country had to be made while justifying a person who was wantonly breaking the law. This guy is still a badguy, IMO, and while I do hope that LEAs start showing more respect to the people they are oathbound to serve and protect and the constitution, I don't like to see them punished when they are in the right going after criminals. If you break the law, you should be held accountable, LEOs included.

/rant off

After some time to think, I believe that new laws should be drawn up. If an individual has illegal substances on hand AND a firearm, however legally said firearm was obtained, it should be a life sentence. Only law-abiding citizens should be allowed to be armed. Hell, why don't we just make it so that if you're in the act of a felony and have a weapon readily available, instant life sentence. Pedophiles, drug dealers, human traffickers, people who intentionally show their genitals in public or commit vandalism or theft: if you have a gun, no scratch that, if you have a weapon of any type, you're going to prison and never getting out. If you kill or permanently injure someone while in the commission of a felony, you get the death sentence.
 

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McCrapper, I have to say that just a freepass for marijuana I don't believe will be a good thing. I understand that it has medicinal uses, and even recreational use that some wish to have, but the experiences I have with many stoners is not something I wish to endorse.

Many of the individuals that use it do so because they are unhappy with the burdens of everyday life. It helps them take a vacation from giving a damn that their lives suck, and they eventually get to the point where they would rather stay on a permanent vacation from these feelings than actually trying to get their lives together. I believe that legalizing marijuana, at least the way most of the potheads i know want, would lead to an increase in the people who are living like leaches in this country. "My life sucks, I can't get a decent job, I'm living in government housing and feed my family from government assistance, but I smoke this blunt, and I'm happy, I don't care anymore."

These people are the weak-minded ones that sell off everything they can to afford another bag, and then steal from their family and friends and strangers to pay for their "recreational" use. They've numbed themselves from giving a damn, about anything, and they turn into sociopaths.

Contrary to hollywood stereotypes, many potheads are not pacifists who have a carefree attitude, and I've known more than a few people who get literally physically violent if someone ruins their high, AKA the "buzzkill". I've also known potheads who get violently angry and start breaking stuff and lose their cool if they have no forseeable way of avoiding staying sober. They might not have a physical addiction to marijuana, but the psychological need to escape can very well resemble addiction. I lucked out growing up, one of my bestfriends lost a girlfriend he was crazy over when we were in 9th grade, and he went into a downward spiral with drugs, and it all started with weed. Seeing him fall, and seeing how pointless (and even damaging for myself) it was to try and help, was the biggest incentive for me to stay away from that stuff. He eventually came out of his purple haze when he had a daughter, I'm happy that he was man enough to do so, I know people who aren't, and turn into even bigger pieces of crap after they have kids.

Now, if responsible people (read people who can prove their lives are not a mess) are allowed to use it responsibly, and businesses are allowed to dictate that they do not want users working for them (IE, weekly piss-tests if they so choose, and if someone pops positive they are fired and other businesses can access this information when considering hiring someone), and efforts are made to ensure that people with jobs that require a certain degree of responsibility (doctors, teachers, law enforcement, judges, people who are involved in safety-sensitive jobs like construction etc) do not use, then I MIGHT be willing to concede.

And I'm one of those people who doesn't buy into the pothead propaganda that it's harmless. Psychologists are pretty damn sure that repeated use leads to schizophrenia, memory loss, and other negative effects. Then there are the medical biologists that still say that THC stores in the fat cells in the reproductive glands and can cause congenital defects. The last thing I want to do is condone making people crazy, forgetful, or screwed up before they're even born.

IMO, the people that push for the legalization of marijuana are as uninformed as those who wish to make firearms illegal. They mean well they just don't realize just how false some of the propaganda they're receiving is, and while I don't believe that naivete should be criminalized, it can still be extremely dangerous, and being purposefully naive is criminal.

Back on topic, I hate that the point which we have been discussing lately regarding the conduct of LEAs in this country had to be made while justifying a person who was wantonly breaking the law. This guy is still a badguy, IMO, and while I do hope that LEAs start showing more respect to the people they are oathbound to serve and protect and the constitution, I don't like to see them punished when they are in the right going after criminals. If you break the law, you should be held accountable, LEOs included.

/rant off

After some time to think, I believe that new laws should be drawn up. If an individual has illegal substances on hand AND a firearm, however legally said firearm was obtained, it should be a life sentence. Only law-abiding citizens should be allowed to be armed. Hell, why don't we just make it so that if you're in the act of a felony and have a weapon readily available, instant life sentence. Pedophiles, drug dealers, human traffickers, people who intentionally show their genitals in public or commit vandalism or theft: if you have a gun, no scratch that, if you have a weapon of any type, you're going to prison and never getting out. If you kill or permanently injure someone while in the commission of a felony, you get the death sentence.
You are for prohibition of alcohol too?
 

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And I'm one of those people who doesn't buy into the pothead propaganda that it's harmless. Psychologists are pretty damn sure that repeated use leads to schizophrenia, memory loss, and other negative effects. Then there are the medical biologists that still say that THC stores in the fat cells in the reproductive glands and can cause congenital defects. The last thing I want to do is condone making people crazy, forgetful, or screwed up before they're even born.
Care to provide any links to actual studies that prove any of that? Or give a good discussion of actual facts?
 

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IMO, the people that push for the legalization of marijuana are as uninformed as those who wish to make firearms illegal. They mean well they just don't realize just how false some of the propaganda they're receiving is, and while I don't believe that naivete should be criminalized, it can still be extremely dangerous, and being purposefully naive is criminal.
This is actually the other way around. Look at the BILLIONS of dollars that are spent on the Drug War and by Big Pharma to keep marijuana illegal, cause they have no conflict of interest when bringing facts to the table...Here's what a government study found:

The Commission recommended decriminalization of simple possession, finding:

[T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance.

The Commission found that the constitutionality of marijuana prohibition was suspect, and that the executive and legislative branches had a responsibility to obey the Constitution, even in the absence of a court ruling to do so:

While the judiciary is the governmental institution most directly concerned with the protection of individual liberties, all policy-makers have a responsibility to consider our constitutional heritage when framing public policy. Regardless of whether or not the courts would overturn a prohibition of possession of marijuana for personal use in the home, we are necessarily influenced by the high place traditionally occupied by the value of privacy in our constitutional scheme.

But you know what, F the rights of the individual, cause MURICA, F YEAH!!!

After some time to think, I believe that new laws should be drawn up. If an individual has illegal substances on hand AND a firearm, however legally said firearm was obtained, it should be a life sentence. Only law-abiding citizens should be allowed to be armed. Hell, why don't we just make it so that if you're in the act of a felony and have a weapon readily available, instant life sentence. Pedophiles, drug dealers, human traffickers, people who intentionally show their genitals in public or commit vandalism or theft: if you have a gun, no scratch that, if you have a weapon of any type, you're going to prison and never getting out. If you kill or permanently injure someone while in the commission of a felony, you get the death sentence.
I didn't know that each situation in life was so black and white. Did you just get into an accident while speeding and carrying concealed or on the way to the range? Take away his guns, lock him up for life. Did you watch or read anything about George Zimmerman? Thinking about it now, I guess he really should have been looking at the death penalty for defending himself against a thug.
 

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I believe that there are far to many redundant laws on the books which should be annulled. Criminal acts make people criminals, laws that presume to prevent crime before it occurs are unjust and create criminals where there are known. The problem with legalizing Marijuana is a financial one. I say legalize all drugs; however, only non-recreational drug users are eligible for public assistance, and insurance carries would have to be exempt from covering loss or illness for these individuals who use drugs recreationally.
 

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farmerted

I never said black and white. And SPEEDING isn't a felony, so nice try at twisting my words. However, if you're doing 150 in a 30, and you're armed, sure, life. Someone that insane definitely needs to be off the street. I'm saying when someone is WILLINGLY committing a serious crime, especially one that involves risks to others, like being a friggin drug dealer, they should have extra incentive to not be a threat to others, including law enforcement. This situation from the OP is a perfect example. The guy was committing a crime, cops got tipped off, got a LEGAL no-knock warrant, and the guy killed a cop doing who was doing his JOB.

Felons are not allowed to own guns. In Florida, where LAW ABIDING CITIZENS have many freedoms regarding firearms, we have the 10-20-life law. All I'm saying is to DEEPEN the punishment already slated. If you're going to be a scumbag drug dealer, or any other form of felon, you'd better not have a weapon. It's called HIGH-RISK. After-the-fact disarmament of TRUE criminals can be a too-late scenario for guys like the cop in this story. So give them EXTRA reason to either NOT break the law, or not be armed while doing it, and in the instances where the scumbags refuse to heed either of those warnings, we can remove them PERMANENTLY if they do something heinous by killing or injuring another human being. You can't cry self-defense if you shoot a guy after instigating something, I don't see how it's so hard to relate that to someone who willfully breaks laws as courting a run-in with the cops ON LAWFUL terms.

You want to let people who are wanton criminals have weapons? Think about that.

As for my proof regarding my claims against marijuana, it's real simple, go to google or bing or yahoo or whatever search engine you fancy and type in THC birth defects. Or Prolonged THC use and mental health. I trust the professor I had in General Psych and Abnormal Psych, whose has a PHD in Psychology for over 40 years, to have an informed opinion. He wasn't some anti-pot super conservative, he was for the most part a bleeding-heart liberal, and when he stated the things I regurgitated here, he did so in a matter-of-fact manner simply to correct a fellow student who was giving a "presentation" that was nothing more than some uneducated hippy-rant because weed is an "all natural" wonder drug (Shame nightshade and Hemlock are also all natural, sinks that argument).

And the Drug War was only against weed? I could have sworn there might have been something in there about cocain, heroin, and a whole slew of other irrefutably dangerous drugs, all of which are trafficked and sold by the same organized crime gangs that have ZERO qualms murdering ANYONE that keeps them from a profit, and have spent just as much money fighting to protect their illicit enterprise. Do you suggest we just give up in the effort to stop drugs? Just let assholes sell crack and X to kids?

Which government study made these findings? Some Obama funded left wing nutjobs? The only people who give a damn about legalizing marijuana are the people with an agenda to legalize it. The rest of us grown-ups have better **** to do with our time than worry about getting high.

And obviously I have zero desire for individual rights. I just own guns that would make the super-government worshipping liberals crap their panties, drive a REAL muscle car that gets 9 miles to the gallon and has no emissions controls, and come from a military family and served myself. I drink alcohol, I smoke cigarettes, I eat undercooked meat. I could give a crap less about individual rights. I love Obama! Someone please tell me what to do!

/sarcasm off

Personal freedoms that don't create REAL problems for others are fine. But maybe I'm just a totalitarian because I'd prefer not having to see weirdos beating off in public, or taking a dump on side walk, or any number of things that an anarchist would consider a "personal freedom." I'll be all for legalizing marijuana for recreational use when I don't have to pay taxes for dirtbags who just sit on government assistance and mooch. If you can't afford to buy your family food, or pay your own goddamned medical bills, or pay for a house with your own friggin money, I fail to understand why I have to help you when you can apparently get your hands on $50+ worth of weed a week. Legalizing it tells those people "hey, it's ok, be a piece of ****, we'll foot your bill for you! And hey, while you're at it, why don't you raise a whole army of other pieces of **** that I'll get to help pay for when I'm the age that USED to be considered retiring age, but since I'm a useful person who has some dignity and self-respect, I'll go ahead and pay for your POS kids and grandkids so they TOO can sit on their asses and not give a damn because they're high as a kite." Where's my personal freedom to not pay for lazy ****birds?
 
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