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Pretty disturbing to read how the ATF is trying to pull this move, regardless of Ares Armor's reputation.

Still, if they hadn't done a news special on the whole 80% thing....I guess you reap what you sow.
 

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I bet the ATF is using the rule about making a machine gun. If you have a AR15 lower that yo mark (not drill) where the GIAS goes, this is making a machine gun under Fed law. So the ATF is probably saying that pre marking a 80% lower is actually making a fully operational lower, even though nothing has been drilled or cut. Why else would AA forfeit the lowers?
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the city called the ATF because the business owner refused to take down his sign.

The following commenter to the article thinks it is the polymer lowers that are made up then back filled that is causing the heart burn..

AnnaSumpter said:
March 13, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Well, this issue is specifically pertaining to the *polymer* 80% lowers that are made in several colors. The metal ones are fine (according to the information from Ares Armor's legal pages) because they started as a single hunk of metal and then subsequently get milled out to become an actual usable lower receiver.
The polymer lowers *start* with a block of plastic/polymer in the exact shape of the fire control cavity and trigger slot, then has the polymer poured around it. If it had been poured as a receiver and THEN had a plug inserted, it would have technically been *closer* to being 100% than the 80% metal receivers, HOWEVER…
You'd still have to drill out the trigger pin hole and the disconnector pin hole and the safety selector switch hole, which would make it like a… 95% receiver? Either way, it is not completely a firearm, even if they say that the receiver was made before the plug.
The ATF is just trying to throw its weight around any way it possibly can, to fulfill some political ends (most likely the National City local govt., bunch of worthless, whiny, spineless wimps)
 

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They are saying the lowers are not 80% because of the plug. When you walk on the edge of the law you can be okay for a time, but all it takes is to piss off one a$$hole and you are finished.
 

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So the color of the plug and how cheap/easy it is to manufacture a firearm is now a consideration for legality?

If this product is illegal, then why do those who sell it make it clear that they were allowed to manufacture it as long as they molded it around the plug rather than adding the plug after? This seems like a pretty specific instruction that are likely to only have come from the ATF.

This now begs the question, are those who bought this in good faith now considered a criminal?
 

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This.

How can the ATF demand Ares Armor hand over their product and their customer list when Ares Armor does not sell products regulated by the ATF?
I cannot defend the ATF. I don't see how they can demand a customer list and follow the law. That said, please don't get riled at me if I try to figure out what they are thinking. Unfinished lowers are supposed to be OK by the arbitrary rules of the ATF. I'm guessing they are wanting to redefine what is "OK" and bully the business owner into not selling the polymer lowers.

To argue effectively you need to know what your opponent is thinking.
 

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According to Ares Armor's restraining order ( Temporary Restraining Order Against BATFE - Ares Armor ), the ATF determined that the manufacturing process used by ep armory (who makes this product) was wrong and the product constitute a firearm. Ares Armor also says this manufacturing information the ATF has is wrong, though I guess only the manufacturer would know if they followed the correct procedure or not.
 

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This.

How can the ATF demand Ares Armor hand over their product and their customer list when Ares Armor does not sell products regulated by the ATF?
All their customers may have paid cash? There would be no record unless the customer decided to offer that info. That's what I do when I can.
 

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ATF fishing expedition, and I bet their live well is full ! Can you just imagine how many morons have committed a felony with a mouse click to receive their select fire LPK, and then we get to provide lodging for them for the next three years.
 

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According to Ares Armor's restraining order ( Temporary Restraining Order Against BATFE - Ares Armor ), the ATF determined that the manufacturing process used by ep armory (who makes this product) was wrong and the product constitute a firearm. Ares Armor also says this manufacturing information the ATF has is wrong, though I guess only the manufacturer would know if they followed the correct procedure or not.
That helps, thank you very much. I think the title of this topic is right on the money: "fishing" If the ATF (IMO, arbitrarily) were really convinced the polymer lowers were firearms there would have been arrests and they would let the store or the manufacturer stay open. I am sure every time one of those 80% lowers is sold the ATF hears a little voice say, "Another gun about to be born, freedom is great!"
 

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That's total Bull****. How long before the ATF tries this with all the online retailers who sell 80% lowers. I'd show up on more than a few lists.
 

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So that's why they suddenly dissappeared from their website...
 

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I bought one and it shipped out literally one day before EP armory got raided. So somewhere, probably right now, some BAFTE goon is staring at my name and address on a computer screen and transferring it over to some sorta "list".
 

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I bought one and it shipped out literally one day before EP armory got raided. So somewhere, probably right now, some BAFTE goon is staring at my name and address on a computer screen and transferring it over to some sorta "list".
Maybe you will make the "A" list! I feel we are all on a list by being on this FORUM. You know the BATFE monitors this and every other gun forum. If you want to get rid of that 80%er let me know. I will add it to my collection.
 

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xslice/hellfire : I am definitely not a lawyer so don't take this as legal advice, but until there is a ruling on if this was manufactured incorrectly (ie. if its a firearm even in its uncompleted state) I would not sell any of these.

I bought two of these EP lowers (after being reasonably sure they were legal) a few months ago as a fun project to do (and because I was aggravated with my local gun store for not following federal law on their NICS checks, I've since found an awesome one that does.) I half finished one of them but felt I screwed it up by gouging the side to the point I would be concerned with its structural integrity so never finished it completely. A lot of reviews have been critical of this product, to the point of safety issues, so I never even started manufacturing the second one.

In the light of this new development and the above safety concerns with the product, I decided to cut both of them into a few pieces to ensure they could never become a working firearm and threw the pieces in my junk drawer.
 
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