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FYI: For those of you who have paperwork to SBR or otherwise make a weapon an NFA item that is registered to you as an individual and you sent it out of state to have the work done to be transferred back to your trust, they are now sending back all application.

Their new decision is that a GCA weapon cannot be transferred across state lines as an NFA item to a trust if it was initially registered under the GCA to an individual.

Options:

1. Transfer the weapon to the trust via FFL dealer (Wait for form 4) then resubmit new paperwork to do the NFA, another year wait
2. Resubmit the paperwork originally filed replacing the trust with you as the individual if you can get LEO sign off.
- Oh and this has to be done within the 30 day window they give you to respond to and errors.

This just started a few weeks ago. I have been in line (like many other) for a year, well before this "Change of process" took place and no love. Sent back and those are the only options you have.

Oh how I wish I was a lawyer or had unlimited resources....So pissed. Now I have to get back in line for another year wait.
 

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That sucks. Sorry to hear that.
 
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?

Can you clarify what you tried to do?

I am waiting on an eform 1 for an SBR on a trust.
I sent the lower out to get engraved. It isn't back yet.
I expect the lower back within a month.
I don't expect the eform 1 for another two months.

The lower was originally a pistol (AAC PDW) that I plan on SBR'ing. The pistol was transferred to me on a 4473 as an individual.

Are you saying that if I want to transfer the lower into my trust when I SBR it, ATF wants it done on a 4473 to the trust?
 

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i hope this does not set precedent for the upcoming rule change we have been waiting for.....meaning....nothing grandfathered in? In your case you were in the system and days away from a 10 month full approval wait time and they changed their mind if I understand correctly? For those of us thinking so long as we had forms submitted before the trust rule change goes into effect....we might start to think otherwise.....

resubmit that bad boy and let the clock start ticking - sorry to hear about this!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
?

Can you clarify what you tried to do?

I am waiting on an eform 1 for an SBR on a trust.
I sent the lower out to get engraved. It isn't back yet.
I expect the lower back within a month.
I don't expect the eform 1 for another two months.

The lower was originally a pistol (AAC PDW) that I plan on SBR'ing. The pistol was transferred to me on a 4473 as an individual.

Are you saying that if I want to transfer the lower into my trust when I SBR it, ATF wants it done on a 4473 to the trust?
It will only be an issue of you sent it out of state and they are sending it back to you and the form is transferring it into your trust. If you did not send it out of state OR the form transferring it back is to you as an individual then you will be fine. Otherwise, expect it to be returned for "correction"
 

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What the...
 

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I hope you're wrong. I would still like to get up to file on a couple of cans and SBR's. Is there a deadline for these rule changes?
What's being discussed here wouldn't affect you.

I haven't actually seen what's being discussed here -- Starz has this hit any of the gun media, anyone have a link?

But regardless what it sounds like Starz was talking about lays out that if you had a NFA item that was registered to you as an individual you can't transfer it to a trust without going through the stamp process again.

If that's what he's talking about, that's always been the case and isn't a change -- if you are transferring ownership of an NFA item, including transferring from your personal ownership to ownership of a trust you're on, that's still a transfer and requires a transfer (application, stamp approval) same as if it was transferring from personA to personB.

Which makes sense -- a trust is a legal entity equal to a person, so if you're transferring to a trust that's a separate "person" taking ownership. And isn't anything new.

i.e. the PrinceLaw has had this question on their FAQ from 2011
Gun (NFA) Trust ? Frequently Asked Questions | Prince Law Offices, P.C.

6. If I currently own NFA firearms, can I transfer them into the trust without incurring a transfer fee?
Unfortunately, the answer is no. The trust is a separate legal entity and the tax must be paid for any transfer into it.
Starz any update on what's going on / what you were trying to do?
 

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I was replying to BBG comment about grandfathering. Our CLEO's won't sign for individual and we have no other option besides the trust route. Once the trust requires CLEO all we can do is move. Just saw Vance's has the FDE 16 for $2,449.99 and the FDE 17 for $2,749.99...anyone want to buy a kidney?
 

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I was replying to BBG comment about grandfathering. Our CLEO's won't sign for individual and we have no other option besides the trust route. Once the trust requires CLEO all we can do is move.
So far there's still no implementation date on the proposed trust changes (as they still have to reply to all the formal comments), and there's no evidence that items filed but not processed will not be approved as in process (aka "grandfathered in").

I wouldn't worry about it. It's still possible that none of the changes happen. Its also still possible that the changes happen, but not until 2016.

Of course, its still possible that the changes go into effect in early 2015 AND they shut down the in-process paperwork -- but that's counter to how they've done all previous major rule changes and nothing I've seen so far that I've seen makes me think this change will be any different than past ones.
 

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I don't think that's the factor at play though.

Starz in the OP mentions existing NFA items, registered to an individual, and trying to transfer that item to a trust
(and apparently not happy with the fact that it has to go through the transfer / approval process to do so?)
 

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The issue is that since at least 2006 BATFE would allow private parties and trusts to send guns out of state to be converted to SBR's by F2 manufacturers and then transfered back directly with a form 4. No in state FFL required as the transferee already owned the gun. BATFE has now decided, with no warning, that these interstate transfers can now only be done to individuals, not to trusts, and all trust transfers in the pipeline are being kicked back. Further, there appears to be some confusion or inconsistantcy on the part of BATFE as to WHEN this policy changed as some transfers are being kicked back when transfers that are newer were approved. I think this is the main issue the OP had.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What Mark said as he is the one trying to transfer it back to me.

@Performify
In my Original post I stated that a GCA (Non NFA) registered to ME being converted to an NFA and then being transferred back to MY trust from an out of state F2. If it was an in state F2 there would be no issue. Maybe I was not clear.

The main point is something the ATF has allowed for years they just decided that they no longer will allow it and everything in the pipeline is getting kicked back. The only recourse if you can is to resubmit the corrected paperwork transferring is back to you as an individual.
 

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I have a question. Since trustees can be assigned to a trust and they can freely have posession of an NFA item, theoretically couldn't the F2 be added to the trust, the item moved between trustees and there would not have to be a Form 4 at all? Then again, there is the shipping across state lines.
 

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What Mark said as he is the one trying to transfer it back to me.

@Performify
In my Original post I stated that a GCA (Non NFA) registered to ME being converted to an NFA and then being transferred back to MY trust from an out of state F2. If it was an in state F2 there would be no issue. Maybe I was not clear.

The main point is something the ATF has allowed for years they just decided that they no longer will allow it and everything in the pipeline is getting kicked back. The only recourse if you can is to resubmit the corrected paperwork transferring is back to you as an individual.
Thanks much for the clarification and added detail.
 
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